Small boat crossings

[Alteredbhoy]

3 minutes ago, ruby said:

You are absolutely right in your analysis, the issue for the RNLI is it doesn't look good. It puts their charity under a spotlight which most charities in this day and age really do need to avoid. I gather from reading around, sure the volunteers are the people that do the work, they are the people that risk their lives. That is what people see. Like most charities they have become top heavy with a CEO and many others on nice fat salaries, perhaps they are worth it but in the world we live in it is not something you don't want publicized. These are not real emergencies so the Coastguard should be calling the Border Force and if I remember correctly should have some nice new boats. I am told the CEO and several other members of the organisation are lawyers so perhaps they should be informing the Government that they are not a "taxi" service. 

Once again you claim to know more about a specialist subject than the professionals.

Determining whether 150 people in a relatively flimsy rubber boat in the Channel are at peril is a matter for the Coastguard. I place more faith in the ability of Coastguard Officers at sea to make that decision, than in the ability of a retired car mechanic who lives 100 miles from the events and spends all day watching Talk TV news and scouring Instagram and YouTube for AI and Russian sponsored conspiracy theories to support his views.

[Jessica In Heels]

5 minutes ago, Alteredbhoy said:

It is interesting to note the apparent Memorandum of Understanding signed between Nigel Farage and Jordan Bardella of National Rally, unveiled at Reform's Conference.

It is interesting on several points.

Firstly, it seems to be an acceptance by Reform that their previous (and only recently announced) policy of using the Royal Navy and Marines to return migrants to France against the wishes of the migrants and the French authorities was unworkable. It suggests that this policy was nothing but political theatre aimed most likely at gullible Restore voters. There have been several posters on the Ontario Topic Forum who have supported the military suggestion, without being able to explain how it would work in practice.

Secondly, this appears to me to be simply a magnification and adaptation of the current arrangement that Starmer negotiated with France whereby migrants can be returned. It removes the need for the UK to take asylum seekers in return and ramps up the numbers being returned. But to stop the crossings, it needs the deterrent of return to prevent the crossings. Reform argued that Starmer's policy would not work, though it does appear to have had an effect. Now they seem to be arguing in favour of it.

And thirdly, it is all hypothetical. It depends upon National Rally winning next year's French Presidential election and Reform then winning the 2029 General Election in the UK. And if Bardella fails to win, then Reform's winning becomes otiose.

I don't understand why Bardella has agreed to such a strange deal. Agreeing to take potentially tens of thousands of asylum seekers from the UK does not seem like an obvious vote winner for an extreme Anti-Migrant party like Nation Rally. Marine Le Pen has already cast doubt on the policy. 

It seems like yet another piece of performative theatre dressed up as policy.

That is all Reform have to offer….headlines yes…practical workable policies ..no.   The danger in allowing these crossing to go unchecked and for these arrivals to now expand across the the wider south coast on the back of the successful Portsmouth crossing..will see a wider lurch to Reform.

[c_cubed51]

9 minutes ago, Jessica In Heels said:

That is all Reform have to offer….headlines yes…practical workable policies ..no.   The danger in allowing these crossing to go unchecked and for these arrivals to now expand across the the wider south coast on the back of the successful Portsmouth crossing..will see a wider lurch to Reform.

But then again, possibly not, Jessica.

Reform UK council leader Graham Harrison quits after four months in charge of Hartlepool Borough Council | The Independent

Reform are not proving to be much good at governing in the areas they control. People do notice.

[Alteredbhoy]

5 minutes ago, Jessica In Heels said:

That is all Reform have to offer….headlines yes…practical workable policies ..no.   The danger in allowing these crossing to go unchecked and for these arrivals to now expand across the the wider south coast on the back of the successful Portsmouth crossing..will see a wider lurch to Reform.

But they not "unchecked". The numbers making the crossings this summer are down by 50% as a result of the actions of the authorities. The Oxford Migration Observatory states that irregular migration into Europe is down by 40% this year and that will lead to further reductions in Channel crossings next year. The criminal gangs are having to launch their boats from further East and West, because the actions of the authorities have made it far more difficult for them across the shorter routes.

Reform (and their supporters on this Forum) are desperate to exaggerate the numbers of crossings and to disregard the successes of the authorities in checking the number of crossings. They have to portray the issue as worsening, even though it is improving, to keep fanning the flames of righteous outrage amongst their fanbase.

[Jessica In Heels]

Lower illegal migration numbers are always welcomed.  

Tactics by the gangs will evolve.  Let’s hope Portsmouth is an outlier and not the next game in town.  The refusal by Southampton and Portsmouth harbour masters to allow RNLI to disembark the migrants due to a lack of facilities will not have gone unnoticed.

The opening of an asylum registration centre in Belfast to deal with the increase in claims lodged by those abusing the Ireland open border with the UK shows the tactics won’t stay the same for long.

Edited September 9 by Jessica In Heels

[ruby]

24 minutes ago, Alteredbhoy said:

Once again you claim to know more about a specialist subject than the professionals.

Determining whether 150 people in a relatively flimsy rubber boat in the Channel are at peril is a matter for the Coastguard. I place more faith in the ability of Coastguard Officers at sea to make that decision, than in the ability of a retired car mechanic who lives 100 miles from the events and spends all day watching Talk TV news and scouring Instagram and YouTube for AI and Russian sponsored conspiracy theories to support his views.

Should have I expected any better. There are very many experts in this world, that is the advantage of the web, I just need to read what they publish. Pretty simple even for me. I actually live within about 20 miles of the English Channel and about 2 miles from the Thames so you are completely wrong on that one. As to a retired motor mechanic, you are doing the motor mechanics a dis service. No way do I know as much as them. On Sunday it wasn't an emergency, which is why both Southampton and Portsmouth Harbours wouldn't let them land. Not my analysis, but one that is on the media. So yet again you are completely wrong. By the way how far do you live from the sea, if I remember rightly it is at least a 2 hour ride to get to the Channel from where you live. Most of the information was on the main media so you are wrong on that one as well. How come you are so out of touch, I suppose you only want to believe what you want to hear. Sad really but if it turns you on so be it.

[Alteredbhoy]

1 hour ago, ruby said:

I actually live within about 20 miles of the English Channel and about 2 miles from the Thames so you are completely wrong on that one. 

Oh ruby, you are a totally dishonest bullshitter.

The English Channel is the area of water between the English and French coasts. It stretches from the Celtic Sea at Lands End and Brittany to the North Sea at the Strait of Dover.

You have indicated that you live in Essex, on the North coast of the Thames River, probably somewhere near Dagenham  or Brentwood.

The nearest point of the English Channel to you is probably Dover, some seventy miles away.

Is it any wonder that nobody believes a word you post?

[Alteredbhoy]

1 hour ago, ruby said:

Should have I expected any better. There are very many experts in this world, that is the advantage of the web, I just need to read what they publish. Pretty simple even for me. I actually live within about 20 miles of the English Channel and about 2 miles from the Thames so you are completely wrong on that one. As to a retired motor mechanic, you are doing the motor mechanics a dis service. No way do I know as much as them. On Sunday it wasn't an emergency, which is why both Southampton and Portsmouth Harbours wouldn't let them land. Not my analysis, but one that is on the media. So yet again you are completely wrong. By the way how far do you live from the sea, if I remember rightly it is at least a 2 hour ride to get to the Channel from where you live. Most of the information was on the main media so you are wrong on that one as well. How come you are so out of touch, I suppose you only want to believe what you want to hear. Sad really but if it turns you on so be it.

Southampton Port Authority were very clear in their announcement. They did not allow the disembarkation of the RNLI lifeboats because they had no reception facilities and the migrants on the lifeboats were not in any danger.

They did not say that there had not been any previous emergency, as you seek to imply. Just that the immediate danger had been relieved by the RNLI. 

Once more ruby seeks to twist the facts to accommodate his dishonest version of events.

[ruby]

2 minutes ago, Alteredbhoy said:

Oh ruby, you are a totally dishonest bullshitter.

The English Channel is the area of water between the English and French coasts. It stretches from the Celtic Sea at Lands End and Brittany to the North Sea at the Strait of Dover.

You have indicated that you live in Essex, on the North coast of the Thames River, probably somewhere near Dagenham  or Brentwood.

The nearest point of the English Channel to you is probably Dover, some seventy miles away.

Is it any wonder that nobody believes a word you post?

Wrong again, miles away. As the crow flies closer than you think. I must admit nearer the junction of the North Sea and English Channel, either way it makes no difference. Live most of my early life in Kent so I know it well. By the way next time you go to a garage, there are mechanics, fitters, technicians so don't get it wrong. Engineers tend to be at the Design Centre, but never mind its only you.

[Alteredbhoy]

5 minutes ago, ruby said:

Wrong again, miles away. As the crow flies closer than you think. I must admit nearer the junction of the North Sea and English Channel, either way it makes no difference. Live most of my early life in Kent so I know it well. By the way next time you go to a garage, there are mechanics, fitters, technicians so don't get it wrong. Engineers tend to be at the Design Centre, but never mind its only you.

That makes no sense. The Junction of the North Sea and the English Channel is at the Strait of Dover.

https://distanceasthecrowflies.com/ puts the distance between Dagenham and Dover as 58 miles. But the distance a crow flies is irrelevant, because whilst you appear to have intellect of a crow, I doubt you have the aerial ability.

You do not live 20 miles from the English Channel as you claimed. It was at a best a mistake (and a stupid one) or a lie. The fact when I point it out that you claim I am wrong suggests a lie is the more probable reason.

[c_cubed51]

ruby lives in the Thurrock Council area. On the northern bank of the Thames, opposite Gravesend. Some way from the confluence of the English Channel and the North Sea.

[Alteredbhoy]

1 hour ago, c_cubed51 said:

ruby lives in the Thurrock Council area. On the northern bank of the Thames, opposite Gravesend. Some way from the confluence of the English Channel and the North Sea.

Still at least 50 miles as the crow flies from Dover, and ruby is like Dodo, flightless.

[explorer1954]

From the RNLI

[emma_stockings_cd]

11 minutes ago, explorer1954 said:

From the RNLI

This!!!

1.2% of RNLI launches were for the channel.

They picked up approx 5% of people crossing, the other 95% were directly by border force.

Anyone collected gets processed the same as if border force had picked them up anyway. 

[nylon10]

As a kid fae Shetland in the north sea; where our brave boys of the lifeboat especially during the winter month go out in all sorts of weather. This utter nonsense and disrespect by uneducated thugs that due to the spread of misinformation is sadly sticking needs to stop!!!

Anyone who wants to know what the RNLI does search the Green lily 1997. Where Bill Deacon sadly lost his life and Hewitt Clark got awarded the highest level of bravery award. There job is to saves lives  and rescue boats that are un-sea worthy. 

This hate towards volunteers who risk there own lives for others regardless of anything must stop. Or you will find people will not volunteer and the seas around the Channel will become more dangerous.

[nylon10]

And girls

[Alteredbhoy]

45 minutes ago, nylon10 said:

As a kid fae Shetland in the north sea; where our brave boys of the lifeboat especially during the winter month go out in all sorts of weather. This utter nonsense and disrespect by uneducated thugs that due to the spread of misinformation is sadly sticking needs to stop!!!

Anyone who wants to know what the RNLI does search the Green lily 1997. Where Bill Deacon sadly lost his life and Hewitt Clark got awarded the highest level of bravery award. There job is to saves lives  and rescue boats that are un-sea worthy. 

This hate towards volunteers who risk there own lives for others regardless of anything must stop. Or you will find people will not volunteer and the seas around the Channel will become more dangerous.

Quite.

The RNLI rescue people in peril and at risk of death in the sea. For the knuckle draggers to suggest that the bravery of the RNLI volunteers equates to delivering a taxi service is extremely insulting.

[c_cubed51]

7 minutes ago, Lynn and John said:

The RNLI wasn't formed to be a taxi service for migrant criminals. It was formed to rescue sailors from shipwrecks. Those economic migrants are not working sailors. It's a different World now to what it was when Sir William Henry created the service to rescue working sailors. Just like the 1951 refugee convention the RNLI is no longer fit for purpose. The crew members of the lifeboats need to get a backbone and refuse to go out to provide a taxi service for illegal migrants. We support the shaming of the lifeboat crews who continue to be a taxi service for these illegal migrant criminals

What a sick tirade against men and women who are far more brave and empathetic than yourself. They uphold the charter of the RNLI, as pointed out by both me and explorer1954.

You cannot hold a candle to any of these people. 

[nylon10]

If a person wants to punish a charity because that is what it is because he/she does not agree with 1.2% of its work. Also, is happy to risk the lives of others all over the British isles. Then that person does not care about his/her country. That person wants back something that can`t and never will come back. Also, that person should look in a mirror and prey to who every he/she wants that one day they do not need the RNLI and then wonder why they aren`t there because they defunded a charity for doing what its chartered to do.

The RNLI doesn`t just save sailors it saved anyone who is in a life of death situation at sea. As if you ask any person who has had to be saved because the inflatable has drifted too far. 

The South East of England is not the UK. This is why we still need the RNLI!!!! 

 

[c_cubed51]

Meanwhile, behind the scenes ...

UK strikes deal with Belgium to tackle migrant boat crossings

[Alteredbhoy]

58 minutes ago, Lynn and John said:

The 1.2% is a dishonest statistic. Far more than 1.2% of the Dover and other Kent lifeboats work is providing a taxi service for migrant criminals which is risking the lives of genuine sailors who get into difficulty off the Kent coast because while a lifeboat is providing a taxi service it can't be rescuing someone who is genuinely in trouble at sea.

Well the RNLI are not claiming it is 1.2% of their Channel Station's work, but of their national work. It is dishonest of you to suggest that they are being dishonest.

And how exactly do you determine that people miles from land in an inflatable boat in the busiest season crossing In Europe are not in genuine trouble?

You can't even tell whether you are dead or alive, so how can we trust your judgement of the wellbeing of others?

[c_cubed51]

10 minutes ago, Lynn and John said:

 A charity shouldn't be used to bring the illegal migrant criminals to mainland England. If the RNLI took a stance and stopped the taxi service then the UK government would find an alternative solution.

How long does it take your single brain cell to understand that the RNLI is an organization which doesn't differentiate between or discriminate against those it rescues at sea?

The RNLI cannot take a stance which is in direct opposition to its stated purpose.

 

[Love All Nylon]

The small (now becoming quite large) boats are not in distress with danger to life onboard. They are not issuing a distress call.  

They should not be being met by the RNLI and escorted ashore on the UK. If the RNLI insists on doing this then the Government should be making the cost up for that element of their operations.  

[helen]

30 to 40 people gathered outside a hotel near Portsmouth on Tuesday night after rumours circulated that a coach carrying migrants had arrived. It turned out to be the Pakistan Cricket team.

Never mind, you can’t repel an invasion without collateral damage. Every foreigner is a potential illegal migrant.

[Love All Nylon]

1 minute ago, Lynn and John said:

They are not rescuing them at sea because the small boats and now bigger boats aren't sinking in British waters. Why can't you understand that the RNLI are providing a taxi service for the illegal migrant criminals and not a rescue service for them.

 

Correct. What makes it  worse is the UK government gives millions to the French authorities to stop the boats which they clearly aren't doing. We suggest if the RNLI continue to provide a taxi service then they should invoice the UK government. We suggest a sum of £2 million charged per landing. Given that the big boat which contained about 240 illegal migrant criminals on board will cost the taxpayer an estimated £25 million then a figure of £2 million per landing is reasonable. The cost of each landing could then be deducted from the amount given to the French authorities.

We're doomed, we really are. With no end in sight.

[c_cubed51]

Just now, Love All Nylon said:

We're doomed, we really are. With no end in sight.

You are the victim of fear-mongering by those with very little intellect or empathy. Fear not!!!

Give thanks for the RNLI and their selfless volunteers.

[Love All Nylon]

1 minute ago, c_cubed51 said:

You are the victim of fear-mongering by those with very little intellect or empathy. Fear not!!!

Give thanks for the RNLI and their selfless volunteers.

And you're just a weird God Squad member and do-gooder leftie. 

List all the benefits to the UK of this uncontrollable invasion?

[c_cubed51]

14 minutes ago, Love All Nylon said:

 List all the benefits to the UK of this uncontrollable invasion?

Why should I justify a false premise?

It's NOT an uncontrolled invasion. As has been pointed out to people like you before, a far bigger issue is the number of people who arrive in the UK legally and then overstay their visa provisions.

You haven't ranted and raved about them!

[Love All Nylon]

1 minute ago, c_cubed51 said:

Why should I justify a false premise?

It's NOT an uncontrolled invasion. As has been pointed out to people like you before, a far bigger issue is the number of people who arrive in the UK legally and then overstay their visa provisions.

You haven't ranted and raved about them!

You can't provide a response, no surprise.

[c_cubed51]

Just now, Love All Nylon said:

You can't provide a response, no surprise.

The fact that you don't understand my response is no surprise. You have the same intellectual capacity as any of the other right-wingnuts on the Ontario Topic Forum.

[Love All Nylon]

Just now, c_cubed51 said:

The fact that you don't understand my response is no surprise. You have the same intellectual capacity as any of the other right-wingnuts on the Ontario Topic Forum.

Can't provide a response, just insults - very much like your mate AB.

[c_cubed51]

14 minutes ago, Love All Nylon said:

Can't provide a response, just insults - very much like your mate AB.

You can't understand my response. Nuff said!

[Love All Nylon]

1 minute ago, c_cubed51 said:

You can't understand my response. Nuff said!

If you say so.

[Sparkler]

54 minutes ago, Lynn and John said:

Also it's those who entered the country illegally who are most likely to get involved in criminality such as raping women. 

I agree 100%, in fact ALL people who have been found to be sex offenders by a court of law should be stopped from entering the UK, ALL OF THEM, no exceptions.

[c_cubed51]

18 minutes ago, Lynn and John said:

We think you must be on drugs. The illegal criminal migrants who are found guilty in a UK court are already here. The only way to stop them raping women is to not allow any of them to enter our country. 

Ha, ha. Another post a right-wingnut does not understand. What a surprise!!!

[Alteredbhoy]

I find it interesting to note how the right wing posters, desperate to exaggerate the numbers of migrants crossing the Channel in order to ignore the successes of the French and British Governments, contradict themselves and totally ignore hard fact.

In March, I first pointed out that the number of crossings had, from October last year, reduced significantly from the previous year. A right wing posters criticised my assessment on the basis that it was not realistic to compare crossings through the winter months when (in his words) the number of crossings was at "near zero".

He continued to claim the numbers were rising through April and May, when they were clearly falling. In June, he finally and grudgingly admitted they were lower, but denied it was anything other than bad weather (despite two heatwaves in May and June). In July, despite the numbers continuing to fall, he claimed they were rising and at near record levels. They were actually lower than in June, at only 25% of the record levels and the lowest July figure since before Brexit caused this crisis.

Over the last four weeks the numbers have fallen even further, being a reduction of 70% on last year (when the weather was truly bad and the numbers were low). The number of crossings over the last 4 weeks has been lower than the number of crossings in February.

Just read that sentence again. The numbers over the last four weeks of September and August are lower than they were in February. You know? They are lower now than when the poster told me that in the winter they were at "near zero". They are lower than "near zero".

But still the right wing protestors try to exaggerate the numbers and deny the reductions. Despite the British and French Governments reducing the figures by 50%, they claim that the migration is "uncontrolled", despite Government control reducing it by 50%.

[explorer1954]

[explorer1954]

We’re reaching a new low in this country when the fantastic heroes of the RNLI are being attacked for their amazing work. The RNLI is something truly special that everyone in this country should be proud of.

These fake "patriots" who attack the RNLI really should listen to Bill Bryson an American who captured it perfectly. 

[Alteredbhoy]

25 minutes ago, explorer1954 said:

We’re reaching a new low in this country when the fantastic heroes of the RNLI are being attacked for their amazing work. The RNLI is something truly special that everyone in this country should be proud of.

These fake "patriots" who attack the RNLI really should listen to Bill Bryson an American who captured it perfectly. 

It's the small minded bigots who have to have somebody to blame for their own sad failings. It's a sign of their desperation that they are now blaming brave volunteers who risk everything for others in a way that they are too cowardly to contemplate doing themselves.

[c_cubed51]

17 hours ago, Love All Nylon said:

And you're just a weird God Squad member and do-gooder leftie. 

Well, I am reminded of the words of Matthew 5: 11-12.

11‘Blessed are you when people revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. 12Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Notice that Jesus tells us it is the reviled who are blessed, not those who revile them; that it is the persecuted who are blessed, not the persecutors; that it is those who are falsely accused who are blessed, not those who falsely accuse!

Jesus tells us that it is the migrants and the brave volunteers of the RNLI who receive God's blessing, not the people who hide behind hoodies and balaclavas, or behind their keyboards.

Jesus tells us that it is the stricken and the do-gooders who help them who receive God's blessing, not the thugs who would see them all come to harm.

I find it ironic that Lynn and John, like you LAN, falsely claims that the RNLI is providing a taxi service, because he fails to accept that the boats are in danger of sinking and the people in them of drowning, but at the same time is prone to end his post with a blessing! A hypocrite!

Both you and he, and indeed all the right-wingnuts on the Ontario Topic Forum are people who would have persecuted the prophets in days gone by.