Hand in Hand (another world is possible)

[c_cubed51]

Here is a lot of food for thought on the current Middle Eastern conflict, and how our children might learn that another world is possible.

It is a personal testimonial from my favourite rabbi, Danya Ruttenberg.

Enjoy! Dream!!

Hand in Hand

one model of what's possible for Israeli and Palestinian kids

RABBI DANYA RUTTENBERG NOV 20

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I suppose this is the next installment of what’s now an ongoing series on attempting to disrupt binary narratives around Israel/Palestine, to remind people that there have long been people working towards a more whole vision for the future.

For those just tuning in, we looked at the multilayered nature of truth, here, and then at some of the peacemaking work being done by women. (As usual, if it’s bold, it’s a link.)

Now let’s look at a school system. I hadn’t originally meant to write about them. but it strikes me that I have a set of experiences that most people writing for an English-speaking audience don’t, and I’d be remiss, at this hour, not to share them.

I know that the intensity and scale of the horrors happening now—the degree of suffering and pain, the unfathomable number of Palestinian civilians—children, families, innocents—killed, the reports still emerging about Hamas’ brutality, the siege limiting humanitarian support in Gaza, the hostages still not home—pales in comparison to this little story I’m about to tell. I hesitated to share it at all because it seems so insignificant now.

But please God, it seems that we might be near a moment of possible pause—respite for Palestinian civilians and return of hostages. May this herald the end of the bloodshed and the beginning of a true political solution.

And I remain convinced that the way home can always be found by following the people who have been working all along for the world we must have.

Who refuse to demonize, as easy as it is to do.

Who remain dogged in their commitment not only to the vision of another world, but to building it, now.

Even when things seem hard and painful and hopeless. As they have for so long.

We must look to those teaching truth and liberation now, and let them teach us the way.

We must follow them.

So here is one small story, buried in the context of much larger work.

---

The academic year of 2015-2016, my family and I spent the year in Jerusalem.¹

In addition to the new baby who arrived not long after we got to town,² that year our kids were in preschool and first grade, and we sent them to the Max Rayne Hand in Hand School, one of six Hand in Hand³ bilingual schools around the country dedicated to creating a shared society of Jews and Palestinians⁴. 

Each classroom had—has—two teachers.  In my eldest’s first grade class, Genia taught all the kids Hebrew, Sireen taught all of them Arabic, and they co-taught other subjects, like math and science (which are, by necessity, not taught as frontally as they might be in other schools.)  Each class has an equal number of Jewish and Palestinian kids, and even the principal’s job is held by two people, who divide responsibilities by grade level.

And of course even the preschoolers began to learn spoken Arabic and Hebrew,⁵ even if they didn’t worry about reading and writing until the kids were older.

Detail of the inside walkway of the Jerusalem school.

The most transformative work that happens there was (is) its most quotidian. My eldest’s primary interactions with his Palestinian friends were as mundane as one would hope, centering around questions like: who’s going to play goalie at recess? Do you have a pencil I can borrow? Do you want to see the comic I just got?  Bonds are forged and thickened through a million small interactions, through connecting as kids first, as it always should be.

It sounds trite, but in a country still working to face the moral truth of Occupation, in which the polarization is constant, racism rampant, and in which there is little trust on all sides.. this matters.

But the school succeeds not by pretending that difference doesn’t exist, but by naming it and putting it in an appropriate context. In addition to learning to speak, read, and write each others’ languages, the kids learned to honor each others’ holidays, histories and narratives. 

Some of it was easy and sweet—the communal bonfire for the Jewish holiday of Lag B’Omer, the joint Christmas/Hanukah concert (complete with four year-olds singing “Jingle Bells” in Arabic)⁶, the Iftar during Ramadan.  

But they faced the hard stuff, too. In the weeks leading up to Israeli Independence Day, the first graders also learned not only the Jewish perspective on founding of the state, but the Nakba ("disaster," aka Palestinians' loss of their homes during the 1948 war). 

The first graders talked about the significance of keys to Palestinians, as well as coloring in the Hebrew word, יזכור, (“remember,”—also the name of the Jewish memorial service for the dead.)

They didn’t hide from the fact of multiple realities.

They simply named it.

Honored it.

Allowed true things to be true.

On Memorial Day, the Jewish children went to a memorial day ceremony honoring those who fell defending the country and the Palestinian kids attended a ceremony about the Nakba.⁷ At the end of the brief separation (the only one all year, as far as I know), all the kids came together to sing songs of peace and hope--pointing everyone at what can and should be.

Yes, those are all keys and flags.

Preschool drawing: "We will extend hands in peace."

At the post Nakba/Memorial day peace event, there was a map and all the Palestinian kids marked where their families were from. From where they had been expelled. (Remember, this is the Jerusalem school.) Again: Simply naming true things, making space for what is to be part of the conversation,

Words like "choice," "home," "labor," "security," "suffering," "tolerance," "sadness," in Hebrew and Arabic.

The fall that we arrived, some issues over the Temple Mount/al-Haram al-Sharif led to what’s sometimes called the "Intifada of the Individuals"—named as such because of the large number of stabbing attacks by Palestinians of Israelis, unclaimed by any party or group. Towards the end of 2015, there were on average 3 attacks a day. Between October 2015 and March 2016, there were 211 stabbings or attempted stabbings of Israelis by Palestinians, 83 shootings and 42 car-ramming attacks killing 30 Israelis and two Americans. Over 200 Palestinians were killed by Israeli security forces, 130 of them while allegedly carrying out attacks on Israelis.

The school’s response?

Was to build community.

They started having solidarity walks for the parents. The invitation was to drop off your kid at school and then all walk together for a mile or two—and then everyone would go off to their respective days. Every morning at first, and then a few days a week. Show up. Get to know the other parents in our school.

They had the older kids paint a massive banner that hung from the school that said,

“We will continue to live together.”

They had gatherings of parents to talk about some of the hard issues, too—to make space for more than just superficial friendships, but rather to do the necessary unpacking and trust-building needed in long-haul work of creating real relationships, building real solidarity.

After the stabbings began, the older kids in the school made this banner that the school hung up, in Hebrew and Arabic: "We continue our shared living".

What began with 50 Palestinian and Jewish children has grown to a network of six schools with over 2,000 students, though there are only 700 alumni of the 6 schools since the first one opened in 1997.  Would that there were more—more schools across the country, more government funding, more parents lobbying to send their kids—the peace and justice process might not be in the dismal shape that it’s in now. 

But still, each child, each heart, each relationship is a good of its own—a seed that’s planted for a better shared future. 

This matters, now more than ever.

This is the most right-wing government that Israel has ever had. Besides the seemingly intractable presence of Netanyahu—who has been Prime Minister 16 out of the last 27 years, and Leader of the Opposition 7 or 8 more—there are factors we’re not hearing enough about in the mainstream media.

Political parties espousing Kahanism—the racist terrorist Meir Kahane had called for Jewish theocracy in the Land of Israel—had been banned from the government for racist incitement since the 1980’s. In 2001, the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights called the official Kahanist website a hate site for spewing vile anti-Arab and anti-Palestinian garbage.

But Netanyahu, anxious to retain power and having trouble forming a government coalition that would stick, decided in 2019 to make a deal with the current Kahanist party, to bring them back into the fold in exchange for their support. So the current Minister of National Security, which includes police, prisons and border police—is Itamar Ben-Gvir, whose racist settler agenda is right there on the surface, and who is in the process of setting up militias in mixed Jewish-Palestinian towns, nothing terrifying about that.⁸ And the current Minister of Defense slash de-facto governor of the West Bank, Betzalel Smoltrch, is even more explicitly genocidal,⁹ and other members of their party have been engaging in even more dehumanizing incitement and suggestions of dropping nuclear bombs on Gaza.¹⁰

Things have to change, soon. One school, one network of schools won’t do it on its own, but this is an important part of the movement—fighting for legal rights, building grassroots power, engaging in activism, educating, telling inconvenient truths, developing action plans, and so much more.

Of course, in education as in other sectors in Israel, significant systemic inequalities between Jews and Palestinians persist, and the Hand in Hand schools are not immune to the ways in which Israeli society favors Jews. In a Hebrew-dominant culture, all the Hand in Hand kids wind up with stronger Hebrew than Arabic, for example, and while both Jewish and Palestinian parents may send their kids to Hand in Hand both because it’s a good school and because they believe in the values of coexistence, it’s also more likely that some Palestinian parents may be motivated by pragmatic interests like their children gaining greater facility with Hebrew in a Jewish-dominated society than they could in an all-Palestinian school. (This information may not be surprising to many of you.) There is so much work yet to be done towards a more whole world.

There are so many kinds of change that are needed.

And of course even solving for the systemic inequities, just the school is not the whole solution—no one thing is. Especially now, as there are so many children beginning their lives traumatized, full of fear and pain because of the events of the last month and a half. We must work on healing them.

And we must look to those who already know how to teach kids that another world is possible.

I asked my eldest—now a teenager—what he remembers from his experience in first grade. He chuckled wryly. “I learned that some Jewish Israelis are nice and some are jerks, and some Palestinian kids are nice and some are jerks.”

Honestly, that’s so little, and so much more than so many kids in that region (or here, ahem) ever get. So basic, so fundamental: Everybody is people. And he was only there for a year. It’s something else entirely when you actually grow up in that community.

Another world is possible.

I pray that we will soon see a pause in the bloodshed.

I pray that it will become the beginning of a lasting peace.

And I weep, you know, a lot these days.

(Give yourself space to cry. Have you had the chance to actually cry lately? Given yourself permission? I’m just saying. This is a lot to hold.)

A month ago, the Hand in Hand school posted on Facebook:

When this war ends we will still study together, still play together, still work together, and still care about each other.

(And another friendly reminder that we can condemn violence without demonizing whole groups of people. Trust us, we do it every day.)

 

 

Cited in this issue:

a lot of things are true.

RABBI DANYA RUTTENBERG   ·   OCT 13

This is Life as a Sacred Text, an expansive, loving, everybody-celebrating, nobody-diminished, justice-centered voyage into one of the world’s most ancient and holy books. More about the project here, and to subscribe, go here.

Read full story

a peacemaking lens

RABBI DANYA RUTTENBERG   ·   OCT 18

This is Life is a Sacred Text, an expansive, loving, everybody-celebrating, nobody-diminished, justice-centered voyage into one of the world’s most ancient and holy books. More about the project here, and to subscribe, go here. Heya. First of all, resharing the last post

Read full story

 

 

1

I’m married to an academic who had a research sabbatical, and my work was portable enough. My spouse is Israeli; my in-laws’ families on all sides, pretty much, perished in the Holocaust except for those who had made it to that patch of land in the 1930’s. (The US sure wasn’t taking people.) Again, there are few facile narratives. My spouse, as I do, wishes desperately for an end to the Occupation and peace and freedom for everyone in the region. Our location choice for sabbatical years is driven by a desire for kids to be close to their grandparents and for my spouse to be close to longtime collaborators. I’m not including any photos of kids at the school because I sure don’t have permission from other parents for that.

2

Yes, we were expecting said baby. Things I can now definitively not recommend: 12 hour flights when 36 weeks pregnant, experiencing the final month of one’s pregnancy in Jerusalem during the peak of summer.

3

Aka Yad B’Yad- יד ביד/Yadan biYadan - يدا بيد

4

In Israel, both Hebrew-speakers and Arabic speakers have long referred to Palestinian citizens of Israel with the accurate term Arabs (or, by Jews, sometimes : Israeli Arabs, as a way—consciously or not—to distinguish and divide them from their kin in the West Bank and Gaza.) (Arabic-speakers may have long also self-identified as Palestinians, but in any case “Arab” is a common self-identification in mixed Hebrew-speaking society.) It has also become more common of late to refer to those same people in the context of the wholeness of Palestinian peoplehood, no matter where on the map people are with regards to Israeli borders. But as is clear from the Hand in Hand school’s own social media, “Arab” is still commonly used, and is an accurate term.

5

I mean, all the kids come in speaking one of those two languages, is the idea. We speak Hebrew at home.

6

screams from the rooftops Yes some Palestinians are Christian and some are Muslim, thank you for your attention to this matter.

(But yes, it’s a little wild that they were singing a song, in Arabic, on a balmy 50F day, about dashing through the snow, written by a Confederate soldier who was the son of an abolitionist. I’ll wait for you to untangle that one.)

7

Though anyone was allowed to go to whatever ceremony they wanted to, and some kids did wind up going to the other community’s, or parts of both.

8

And survivors of intimate partner violence are terrified—evidently there’s nothing to prevent men with criminal records for domestic abuse from getting their hands on a gun now that firearms are generally easier to come by.

9

He called for the Palestinian town of Hawara to be “erased.” I am in no way going to apologize for or justify that. I am extremely careful in my use of that word, genocide—I don’t throw it around lightly—but nor am I going to cover for people who mean to do evil.

10

I’m not the only one who thinks that Smoltrich’s racism may be driving some decisions in this war. (Knesset Member Ofer Kassif, the only Jew on the Arab coalition party, got in official trouble for making that suggestion.) Even though technically now there is a Unity Government.

 

Edited November 20 by c_cubed51

[Alteredbhoy]

A two State solution with both races having a homeland is the only solution. But it requires both sides to understand that it cannot be achieved by defeating the other militarily.

[rowlf]

So, it's Netanyahu's fault. The killing, the decapitating, the raping, the burning, and the taking of slaves. The thousands of incoming missiles and rockets for the many years from the enemies that have surrounded them. It continues to this very day. And Hamas' promise they will do it all over again.......... if allowed to live.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3_0GqPvr4U

My heroes have always been cowboys...

[Alteredbhoy]

8 minutes ago, rowlf said:

So, it's Netanyahu's fault. The killing, the decapitating, the raping, the burning, and the taking of slaves. The thousands of incoming missiles and rockets for the many years from the enemies that have surrounded them. It continues to this very day. And Hamas' promise they will do it all over again.......... if allowed to live.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3_0GqPvr4U

My heroes have always been cowboys...

And that is why you are part of the problem.

You are more interested in allocating blame and justifying retribution than you are in seeking a solution. Sure, Netanyahu is in part to blame. And so are other Israeli leaders, who have advocated taking land from the Palestinians or making them live under military occupation. And so are Hamas and their predecessors. But concentrating on blame just perpetuates the violence.

[dappi]

1 minute ago, Alteredbhoy said:

And that is why you are part of the problem.

You are more interested in allocating blame and justifying retribution than you are in seeking a solution. Sure, Netanyahu is in part to blame. And so are other Israeli leaders, who have advocated taking land from the Palestinians or making them live under military occupation. And so are Hamas and their predecessors. But concentrating on blame just perpetuates the violence.

Pearls before swine.

[rowlf]

1 minute ago, Alteredbhoy said:

And that is why you are part of the problem.

You are more interested in allocating blame and justifying retribution than you are in seeking a solution. Sure, Netanyahu is in part to blame. And so are other Israeli leaders, who have advocated taking land from the Palestinians or making them live under military occupation. And so are Hamas and their predecessors. But concentrating on blame just perpetuates the violence.

Ignoring what must be done to stop this downward spiral of violence is to act instead of reacting to the violence. Get rid of the UN. Quit paying welfare to the Arab community, and in particular Hamas so they can use these billions of dollars to finance the buying, and building of weapons. Very little if any go to the citizens of Gaza. Have you watched the news about how many tunnels are being found in Gaza City, and radially extending out to who knows where?

Do you think about the citizens of Gaza that are threatened with death if any of Hamas' tunnels, weapons caches were disclosed?

Once again, I'll ask you. If you lived in that country, would you want the soldiers to pack up and go home while you, your friends and family sat back to wait for the next insertion of Hamas terrorists? Knowing what they did a few weeks ago, and have promised to doing it again?

Give peace a chance, my arse!

[c_cubed51]

32 minutes ago, rowlf said:

Once again, I'll ask you. If you lived in that country, would you want the soldiers to pack up and go home while you, your friends and family sat back to wait for the next insertion of Hamas terrorists? Knowing what they did a few weeks ago, and have promised to doing it again?

Give peace a chance, my arse!

It really is a shame that your segregated education was unable to provide you with a broader view of humanity, rowlf. To highlight the benefits of an education at a school such as Hand in Hand, I highlight this:

I asked my eldest—now a teenager—what he remembers from his experience in first grade. He chuckled wryly. “I learned that some Jewish Israelis are nice and some are jerks, and some Palestinian kids are nice and some are jerks.”

It's as true today as it was back in 2015/16.

You appear not to have fully appreciated this bit, either:

The fall that we arrived, some issues over the Temple Mount/al-Haram al-Sharif led to what’s sometimes called the "Intifada of the Individuals"—named as such because of the large number of stabbing attacks by Palestinians of Israelis, unclaimed by any party or group. Towards the end of 2015, there were on average 3 attacks a day. Between October 2015 and March 2016, there were 211 stabbings or attempted stabbings of Israelis by Palestinians, 83 shootings and 42 car-ramming attacks killing 30 Israelis and two Americans. Over 200 Palestinians were killed by Israeli security forces, 130 of them while allegedly carrying out attacks on Israelis.

The school’s response?

Was to build community.

This is how peacemakers react to violence. It's the same today. The young are not born with attitudes such as yours, rowlf. Intolerant points of view which cause people to disrespect others are inculcated; so, too, are attitudes of tolerance and respect. Certainly, in families; often in schools.

When I was on sabbatical, back in 1984/85, we spent a year in London and my kids aged 5 and 6 attended an ordinary primary school. They mixed with children from different cultures. They celebrated each other's religious festivals. Parents came along to these school functions. They returned to South Africa streets ahead of their peers in terms of reading, writing and 'rithmetic, too.

To answer your question: Sane people in the region are not sitting back waiting to die in fear. They are choosing to live in Hope (the theme of the first Sunday in Advent, BTW) by building bridges of understanding, whilst acknowledging the truth of the current situation.

Another world is possible, rowlf. To end, I repeat this bit from Rabbi Danya's article:

A month ago, the Hand in Hand school posted on Facebook:

When this war ends we will still study together, still play together, still work together, and still care about each other.

(And another friendly reminder that we can condemn violence without demonizing whole groups of people. Trust us, we do it every day.)

[ruby]

1 hour ago, rowlf said:

Ignoring what must be done to stop this downward spiral of violence is to act instead of reacting to the violence. Get rid of the UN. Quit paying welfare to the Arab community, and in particular Hamas so they can use these billions of dollars to finance the buying, and building of weapons. Very little if any go to the citizens of Gaza. Have you watched the news about how many tunnels are being found in Gaza City, and radially extending out to who knows where?

Do you think about the citizens of Gaza that are threatened with death if any of Hamas' tunnels, weapons caches were disclosed?

Once again, I'll ask you. If you lived in that country, would you want the soldiers to pack up and go home while you, your friends and family sat back to wait for the next insertion of Hamas terrorists? Knowing what they did a few weeks ago, and have promised to doing it again?

Give peace a chance, my arse!

Sadly rowlf you are wasting your time. Some people somehow think terrorists will follow the Geneva Convention, they don't and generally target civilians because they don't fight back. At least the French Resistance only attacked Nazis.

[Alteredbhoy]

15 minutes ago, ruby said:

Sadly rowlf you are wasting your time. Some people somehow think terrorists will follow the Geneva Convention, they don't and generally target civilians because they don't fight back. At least the French Resistance only attacked Nazis.

Sadly, you are as narrow minded as rowlf.

The best way to defeat terrorism is not to bomb it and its supporters out of existence. That's probably fortunate for rowlf because he has expressed support for those prepared to use terrorism to seek to ensure that their choice for POTUS is installed.

The only way to defeat terrorism is to ensure that the environment in which terrorism festers is not allowed to exist. The Israeli response to the Hamas terrorist attack is guaranteed to perpetuate Hamas or its replacement.

btw between 1944 and the end of WW2 an estimated 10,000 French citizens were summarily executed by the French Resistance over allegations of collaboration.

 

Edited November 20 by Alteredbhoy

[c_cubed51]

17 minutes ago, Alteredbhoy said:

btw between 1944 and the end of WW2 an estimated 10,000 French citizens were summarily executed by the French Resistance over allegations of collaboration.

Another fine example of ruby's research skills.

33 minutes ago, ruby said:

At least the French Resistance only attacked Nazis.

Wartime collaboration - Wikipedia

 

[rowlf]

17 minutes ago, Alteredbhoy said:

Sadly, you are as narrow minded as rowlf.

The best way to defeat terrorism is not to bomb it and its supporters out of existence. That's probably fortunate for rowlf because he has expressed support for those prepared to use terrorism to seek to ensure that their choice for POTUS is installed.

The only way to defeat terrorism is to ensure that the environment in which terrorism festers is not allowed to exist. The Israeli response to the Hamas terrorist attack is guaranteed to perpetuate Hamas or its replacement.

btw between 1944 and the end of WW2 an estimated 10,000 French citizens were summarily executed by the French Resistance over allegations of collaboration.

Ol' gutless again. You can't even acknowledge you would protect your own family at all costs to promote your way of life. It always has been, and always will be 'family, GOD, and country. How many German citizens did you Brits kill in WWII?

[rowlf]

2 minutes ago, c_cubed51 said:

Another fine example of ruby's research skills.

Wartime collaboration - Wikipedia

 

You and your little buddy just can't go against the media and say that you would choose to protect your own families.

[c_cubed51]

Just now, rowlf said:

Ol' gutless again. You can't even acknowledge you would protect your own family at all costs to promote your way of life. It always has been, and always will be 'family, GOD, and country. How many German citizens did you Brits kill in WWII?

This is priceless! Given that the poster supports a person who has openly said that he will ignore the Constitution and radically alter the American way of life!

Truly, he will not know what he has got until it's gone!!!

[Alteredbhoy]

6 minutes ago, rowlf said:

Ol' gutless again. You can't even acknowledge you would protect your own family at all costs to promote your way of life. It always has been, and always will be 'family, GOD, and country. How many German citizens did you Brits kill in WWII?

And what would you suggest is the best way for Palestinian families in Gaza to protect their families?

You are an idiot. Suggesting that killing civilians can be counted as protecting ones family from terrorism.

Maybe the US authorities should bomb your home to protect other Americans from the potential future acts of terrorism which you have indicated you would support.

[rowlf]

1 minute ago, c_cubed51 said:

This is priceless! Given that the poster supports a person who has openly said that he will ignore the Constitution and radically alter the American way of life!

Truly, he will not know what he has got until it's gone!!!

What kind of twisted environment do you live in, that you can't state the obvious? You would sacrifice your family for the lives of terrorists. We've found out what these animals did to the Israelis on Oct 7th. I can't imagine what is going on with the slaves that were captured.

We're not living 70 years ago. We're not living in the future. We're living in the here and now.

 

[c_cubed51]

1 minute ago, Alteredbhoy said:

And what would you suggest is the best way for Palestinian families in Gaza to protect their families?

You are an idiot. Suggesting that killing civilians can be counted as protecting ones family from terrorism.

Maybe the US authorities should bomb your home to protect other Americans from the potential future acts of terrorism which you have indicated you would support.

The US authorities are much better at bombing other nations, AB. 

 

11 minutes ago, rowlf said:

Ol' gutless again. You can't even acknowledge you would protect your own family at all costs to promote your way of life. It always has been, and always will be 'family, GOD, and country. How many German citizens did you Brits kill in WWII?

For example, remind us again how many Japanese civilians the US killed in WW2?

[rowlf]

2 minutes ago, Alteredbhoy said:

And what would you suggest is the best way for Palestinian families in Gaza to protect their families?

You are an idiot. Suggesting that killing civilians can be counted as protecting ones family from terrorism.

Maybe the US authorities should bomb your home to protect other Americans from the potential future acts of terrorism which you have indicated you would support.

What do you suggest is the best way for you to protect your families?

[rowlf]

Just now, c_cubed51 said:

The US authorities are much better at bombing other nations, AB. 

 

For example, remind us again how many Japanese civilians the US killed in WW2?

To answer both scenarios, we killed way more of the enemy than the enemy killed us. That's the way things turn out in a war.... if you want to win.

[c_cubed51]

Just now, rowlf said:

What do you suggest is the best way for you to protect your families?

1. Raise them in a multicultural environment. Encourage them to learn and play sport with children from other ethnic groups, other faiths, other sexual orientations. Teach them tolerance and respect for one another.

2. By example, show them that a career in community-oriented sphere (teaching, medicine, law enforcement, ...) is a rewarding option.

3. By example, show them that the value of giving of one's time and talents to voluntary work (eg soup kitchens, Street Pastors, ... ) outweighs any monetary consideration. 

4. Teach them that Nationalism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

[c_cubed51]

6 minutes ago, rowlf said:

To answer both scenarios, we killed way more of the enemy than the enemy killed us. That's the way things turn out in a war.... if you want to win.

The chicoms are taking over the world by stealth, rowlf. That's why you are frightened of them. They are under your bed. How will you protect your family?

[helen]

I detect the green shoots of progress. On the OTF if not yet in the Holy Land.
When, many years ago, I had the temerity to put the Palestinian case for the first time on a thread on this forum the owner of the thread was so incensed he, ably assisted by Boatman. shut the thread down. In those days ‘Palestinian’ and ‘terrorist’ were interchangeable.

At least some premature baby terrorists have been safely evacuated to Egypt today.

Small mercies.

[ruby]

32 minutes ago, c_cubed51 said:

Another fine example of ruby's research skills.

Wartime collaboration - Wikipedia

 

As people are always saying, resort to personal insults and you have lost the plot.

[rowlf]

If one wanted to look at this situation from another perspective. These Palestinians elected Hamas. They had other choices. They knew what Hamas was about and they still chose Hamas.

As far as I know, they demanded little or nothing from their elected gov. It seems Hamas was not held accountable for their actions. They were given barely enough to survive. They allowed their children to hate and to kill Jews in their classrooms.

If any of these Gaza citizens had rejected the ways of Hamas things would have been different. They could have made a change. But they decided not to. Either out of fear or out of desire.

If they had rebelled against Hamas, many of them may been killed, maybe in the hundreds, maybe a few thousand. But nothing like the 1,200+ Israeli citizens and the 10,000+ and climbing deaths of the Gaza citizens. Not to mention the wasted billions and billions of dollars having been pissed away.

Ironically, I had watched news clips early on showing a handful of Gaza citizens arguing in the marketplace. Peaceably, yet forcefully about which of their preferred political groups were the main cause of how things in their country had turned out.

[rowlf]

16 minutes ago, c_cubed51 said:

1. Raise them in a multicultural environment. Encourage them to learn and play sport with children from other ethnic groups, other faiths, other sexual orientations. Teach them tolerance and respect for one another.

2. By example, show them that a career in community-oriented sphere (teaching, medicine, law enforcement, ...) is a rewarding option.

3. By example, show them that the value of giving of one's time and talents to voluntary work (eg soup kitchens, Street Pastors, ... ) outweighs any monetary consideration. 

4. Teach them that Nationalism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

'Protect' them against what?'

[c_cubed51]

2 minutes ago, rowlf said:

Ironically, I had watched news clips early on showing a handful of Gaza citizens arguing in the marketplace. Peaceably, yet forcefully about which of their preferred political groups were the main cause of how things in their country had turned out.

You missed the bit, then, where anti-Hamas demonstrators had their arms and legs broken?

Just as you missed the bit where the Capitol was stormed by insurrectionists, rather than peaceful tourists?

[c_cubed51]

2 minutes ago, rowlf said:

'Protect' them against what?'

You don't understand, do you? 'Nuff said.

[rowlf]

30 minutes ago, Alteredbhoy said:

And what would you suggest is the best way for Palestinian families in Gaza to protect their families?

You are an idiot. Suggesting that killing civilians can be counted as protecting ones family from terrorism.

Maybe the US authorities should bomb your home to protect other Americans from the potential future acts of terrorism which you have indicated you would support.

You just can't say it, 

 

1 minute ago, c_cubed51 said:

You missed the bit, then, where anti-Hamas demonstrators had their arms and legs broken?

Just as you missed the bit where the Capitol was stormed by insurrectionists, rather than peaceful tourists?

You and your ilk are an excellent example of why Hamas initiated this war. They knew you would throw the Israelis to the wolves. The same as the students you taught are currently doing.

[c_cubed51]

11 minutes ago, ruby said:

As people are always saying, resort to personal insults and you have lost the plot.

I understand that the truth hurts. Sorry!

[rowlf]

14 minutes ago, ruby said:

As people are always saying, resort to personal insults and you have lost the plot.

Cubed doesn't currently have the plot. There is a lag time between the MSM fabricating it, and the msg being delivered.

[c_cubed51]

2 minutes ago, rowlf said:

You just can't say it, You and your ilk are an excellent example of why Hamas initiated this war. They knew you would throw the Israelis to the wolves. The same as the students you taught are currently doing.

Go back to the top and read the article, rowlf. We are not peaceniks! Rabbi Ruttenberg has a lot of negative stuff to say about Hamas and Netanyahu. She is saying ... look beyond the current situation - what can we do to try to ensure it does not happen again? I repeat this bit of the article:

A month ago, the Hand in Hand school posted on Facebook:

When this war ends we will still study together, still play together, still work together, and still care about each other.

(And another friendly reminder that we can condemn violence without demonizing whole groups of people. Trust us, we do it every day.)

I, too, condemn the violence without demonising whole groups of people.

 

[rowlf]

3 minutes ago, c_cubed51 said:

Go back to the top and read the article, rowlf. We are not peaceniks! Rabbi Ruttenberg has a lot of negative stuff to say about Hamas and Netanyahu. She is saying ... look beyond the current situation - what can we do to try to ensure it does not happen again? I repeat this bit of the article:

A month ago, the Hand in Hand school posted on Facebook:

When this war ends we will still study together, still play together, still work together, and still care about each other.

(And another friendly reminder that we can condemn violence without demonizing whole groups of people. Trust us, we do it every day.)

I, too, condemn the violence without demonising whole groups of people.

You and I both know this isn't the gist of what I was saying. You seem to take the high road in deciding who should stay and who should go. It's an easy thing to do when you're distant from ground zero and espousing liberal rhetoric. I know that you are able to place yourself into the predicament of the Israeli community at this time. But you just can't follow through and say it.

And this lack of freedom of speech is destroying our society.......... what's left of it.

There ain't a damned thing wrong in saying Israeli people have no other recourse than to cut the snake off at the head. FYI, that's an Arab saying.

[dappi]

41 minutes ago, ruby said:

As people are always saying, resort to personal insults and you have lost the plot.

What people?

All that from one of our champion insulter of the person.

[Alteredbhoy]

1 hour ago, rowlf said:

You just can't say it, 

 

You and your ilk are an excellent example of why Hamas initiated this war. They knew you would throw the Israelis to the wolves. The same as the students you taught are currently doing.

Hamas did not initiate this war.

It has been fought since we'll before Hamas was formed.

Your ignorance of history condemns you to recommend actions that perpetrate it 

[rowlf]

10 minutes ago, Alteredbhoy said:

Hamas did not initiate this war.

It has been fought since we'll before Hamas was formed.

Your ignorance of history condemns you to recommend actions that perpetrate it 

Are you and dappi in assisted living?

[Alteredbhoy]

1 hour ago, ruby said:

As people are always saying, resort to personal insults and you have lost the plot.

Cubed was commenting on your lack of knowledge about the matters you discuss.

That isn't resorting to personal insults.

[Alteredbhoy]

12 minutes ago, rowlf said:

Are you and dappi in assisted living?

Careful, ruby will accuse you of losing the argument by resorting to personal insults.

[rowlf]

7 minutes ago, Alteredbhoy said:

Careful, ruby will accuse you of losing the argument by resorting to personal insults.

I was just showing a bit of personal concern...

[Ursula Harrison]

2 hours ago, Alteredbhoy said:

The Israeli response to the Hamas terrorist attack is guaranteed to perpetuate Hamas or its replacement.

Which was surely the point of the October 7 attacks.

As someone pertinently remarked in their aftermath "what they have done is assassinated peace".

[Alteredbhoy]

7 minutes ago, Ursula Harrison said:

Which was surely the point of the October 7 attacks.

As someone pertinently remarked in their aftermath "what they have done is assassinated peace".

Which would suggest Israel are fulfilling Hamas's wishes and guaranteeing them decades more of conflict

 

[rowlf]

9 minutes ago, Alteredbhoy said:

Which would suggest Israel are fulfilling Hamas's wishes and guaranteeing them decades more of conflict

 

If Israel can keep the 'peacemakers' at bay, there may be no more a 'Hamas'.