PM delays ban on Petrol/Diesel and other Green agenda items.

[dappi]

28 minutes ago, ruby said:

Yes I too am waiting for that, it is not going to be good news.

Again you make assumptions without proof. Are you sure the news will be bad?

[Alteredbhoy]

4 hours ago, ruby said:

Yes I too am waiting for that, it is not going to be good news.

Even if it is good news, you will accuse the report writer of bein a corrupt "dimbo".

[helen]

Rishi will be thrilled to learn his new net‑zero fantasy has been given the seal of approval of the ‘Stable Genius’ himself.

“I always knew Sunak was smart, that he wasn’t going to destroy and bankrupt his nation for fake climate alarmists that don’t have a clue.
“Congratulations to Prime Minister Sunak for recognising this SCAM before it was too late!”.

If that doesn’t swing the waverers behind him then I don’t know what will,

I suppose it gives Rishi associate membership of the Alt‑Right.

Next stop, his own show on GBNews.

 

[dappi]

3 minutes ago, helen said:

Rishi will be thrilled to learn his new net‑zero fantasy has been given the seal of approval of the ‘Stable Genius’ himself.

“I always knew Sunak was smart, that he wasn’t going to destroy and bankrupt his nation for fake climate alarmists that don’t have a clue.
“Congratulations to Prime Minister Sunak for recognising this SCAM before it was too late!”.

If that doesn’t swing the waverers behind him then I don’t know what will,

I suppose it gives Rishi associate membership of the Alt‑Right.

Next stop, his own show on GBNews.

 

We are all doomed...

[ruby]

3 hours ago, dappi said:

Again you make assumptions without proof. Are you sure the news will be bad?

dappi I know you think you are a "rocket scientist" but how the hell am I going to get proof, the results will come in the future. I can speculate which is what I was doing. Considering a lot of people get injured because of speeding motorists which you yourself endorsed, then they weren't doing 30 mph, so why do you think that lowering the speed limit is going to reduce speeding motorists. If they didn't obey 30 mph speed limits I sincerely doubt they are going to obey 20 mph ones. In fact as a motorist doing 20 mph you are probably more likely to get injured by a rear end shunt which happens a lot around our local shopping centre where the speed limit is 20 mph.

[c_cubed51]

3 hours ago, ruby said:

If they didn't obey 30 mph speed limits I sincerely doubt they are going to obey 20 mph ones. 

Speed cameras with a tolerance of 5mph on the high streets will help ensure that no-one who is short of cash will get to travel anywhere near 30mph. Only the rich and arrogant, or young and stupid, may feel entitled to do so.

To deal with people like these, one solution is to put elevated platforms at odd intervals all along the roadways. Believe me, these are a pain in the tail for motorists!!! We have several in our local village, and each one reportedly cost $10,000 (GBP5,000) to put in place. A nice bit of extra cash for some parliamentarians or their friends!

Here in NZ the Labour Govt in its wisdom has lowered many speed limits throughout the country by a blanket 10km/h. With a general election coming up next month, the National Party has committed to raising all the speed limits which have been reduced. Perhaps the Lib Dem Party could do the same?

Sounds like a real vote winner!!!

Edited September 25 by c_cubed51

[ruby]

8 hours ago, c_cubed51 said:

Speed cameras with a tolerance of 5mph on the high streets will help ensure that no-one who is short of cash will get to travel anywhere near 30mph. Only the rich and arrogant, or young and stupid, may feel entitled to do so.

To deal with people like these, one solution is to put elevated platforms at odd intervals all along the roadways. Believe me, these are a pain in the tail for motorists!!! We have several in our local village, and each one reportedly cost $10,000 (GBP5,000) to put in place. A nice bit of extra cash for some parliamentarians or their friends!

Here in NZ the Labour Govt in its wisdom has lowered many speed limits throughout the country by a blanket 10km/h. With a general election coming up next month, the National Party has committed to raising all the speed limits which have been reduced. Perhaps the Lib Dem Party could do the same?

Sounds like a real vote winner!!!

I noticed on the web some German city is banning all parking and doing similar measures. As Councils are noticing in the UK all it does is destroy your town centre. As to speed cameras, people know where they are, the average are a bit harder to fool but at the end of day what do you want pedestrians not dying because of impacts with cars or the whole population getting exposed to harmful emissions because the catalysts can't work properly at that speed. 

[dappi]

14 hours ago, ruby said:

dappi I know you think you are a "rocket scientist" but how the hell am I going to get proof, the results will come in the future. I can speculate which is what I was doing. Considering a lot of people get injured because of speeding motorists which you yourself endorsed, then they weren't doing 30 mph, so why do you think that lowering the speed limit is going to reduce speeding motorists. If they didn't obey 30 mph speed limits I sincerely doubt they are going to obey 20 mph ones. In fact as a motorist doing 20 mph you are probably more likely to get injured by a rear end shunt which happens a lot around our local shopping centre where the speed limit is 20 mph.

Sorry about the log delay, I have been building a rocket for the treacherous and unenviable journey to the heart of Uranus.

I do endorse a lower speed limit partly because of the accidents I was unlucky enough to be involved in. On each occasion the drivers were given quite severe sentences. That is a matter for the authorities not me.

I support the reduction of speed limits in towns and built up areas , again, ensuring these limits are enforced is up to the authorities and I hope they will pursue the rule breakers vigorously.

However I know you will never agree because of your apparent right drive quickly. The streets and surrounding areas are for all to enjoy, not just you and other motorists.

As to your story about all the rear end shunts happening a lot near you. As long as only the motorists are hurt or inconvenienced in these incidents, no problem.

[ruby]

6 hours ago, dappi said:

Sorry about the log delay, I have been building a rocket for the treacherous and unenviable journey to the heart of Uranus.

I do endorse a lower speed limit partly because of the accidents I was unlucky enough to be involved in. On each occasion the drivers were given quite severe sentences. That is a matter for the authorities not me.

I support the reduction of speed limits in towns and built up areas , again, ensuring these limits are enforced is up to the authorities and I hope they will pursue the rule breakers vigorously.

However I know you will never agree because of your apparent right drive quickly. The streets and surrounding areas are for all to enjoy, not just you and other motorists.

As to your story about all the rear end shunts happening a lot near you. As long as only the motorists are hurt or inconvenienced in these incidents, no problem.

You don't seem to understand if in your accidents people got prosecuted then they were well over the speed limit, so 30 MPH meant nothing to them, so do you really thing they will go at 20 MPH.  Well if you think 30 MPH is fast, I take it you don't drive or you would realise how difficult it is to drive a car designed and geared to go at 30 MPH is. As I said before you are constantly between second and third gear constantly watching your speedo, that is in my diesel with bags of torque I imagine in a petrol engined car it is even worse. An even bigger issue is the issue with HGVs, one Haulier said that at that speed they will constantly be changing clutches, I assume you are either very rich to absorb the extra costs involved to everything you buy or you don't live in Wales. I do hope for his sake the figures come down or else he will be doing security at Tescos. So when does your Rocket blast off, I am sure rowlf will be very pleased to know that, need any hep with the fuel. I am sure there are enough contributors on this site that will cough up.

[dappi]

41 minutes ago, ruby said:

You don't seem to understand if in your accidents people got prosecuted then they were well over the speed limit, so 30 MPH meant nothing to them, so do you really thing they will go at 20 MPH.  Well if you think 30 MPH is fast, I take it you don't drive or you would realise how difficult it is to drive a car designed and geared to go at 30 MPH is. As I said before you are constantly between second and third gear constantly watching your speedo, that is in my diesel with bags of torque I imagine in a petrol engined car it is even worse. An even bigger issue is the issue with HGVs, one Haulier said that at that speed they will constantly be changing clutches, I assume you are either very rich to absorb the extra costs involved to everything you buy or you don't live in Wales. I do hope for his sake the figures come down or else he will be doing security at Tescos. So when does your Rocket blast off, I am sure rowlf will be very pleased to know that, need any hep with the fuel. I am sure there are enough contributors on this site that will cough up.

I certainly understand the issues to which you refer, I just don't care very much. You will defend the right to drive quickly. I am sure that you and your amazing intellect could come up with a solution to the problem.

However you don't mention or care about the lives and horrendous injuries caused by speeding and the money saved by not speeding.

Please, no more fantasy claims about rear end shunts happening all the time. If that,s your hobby please keep it to yourself.

[dappi]

44 minutes ago, ruby said:

You don't seem to understand if in your accidents people got prosecuted then they were well over the speed limit, so 30 MPH meant nothing to them, so do you really thing they will go at 20 MPH.  Well if you think 30 MPH is fast, I take it you don't drive or you would realise how difficult it is to drive a car designed and geared to go at 30 MPH is. As I said before you are constantly between second and third gear constantly watching your speedo, that is in my diesel with bags of torque I imagine in a petrol engined car it is even worse. An even bigger issue is the issue with HGVs, one Haulier said that at that speed they will constantly be changing clutches, I assume you are either very rich to absorb the extra costs involved to everything you buy or you don't live in Wales. I do hope for his sake the figures come down or else he will be doing security at Tescos. So when does your Rocket blast off, I am sure rowlf will be very pleased to know that, need any hep with the fuel. I am sure there are enough contributors on this site that will cough up.

I forgot to mention, I have said this previously. It will be up to the authorities to police these issues.

By the way, your reference to my rocket to Uranus was very weak. In a similar way to your fairytale about rear end shunts all of the time, someone with a masters could do much better.

[c_cubed51]

8 hours ago, dappi said:

Sorry about the log delay, I have been building a rocket for the treacherous and unenviable journey to the heart of Uranus.

I do endorse a lower speed limit partly because of the accidents I was unlucky enough to be involved in. On each occasion the drivers were given quite severe sentences. That is a matter for the authorities not me.

I support the reduction of speed limits in towns and built up areas , again, ensuring these limits are enforced is up to the authorities and I hope they will pursue the rule breakers vigorously.

However I know you will never agree because of your apparent right drive quickly. The streets and surrounding areas are for all to enjoy, not just you and other motorists.

As to your story about all the rear end shunts happening a lot near you. As long as only the motorists are hurt or inconvenienced in these incidents, no problem.

This article appeared in the NZ press today:

Election 2023: Slower speeds avoid 34 crashes on one road, and made journeys 3.6 minutes longer (msn.com)

Could the same results occur in the UK?

[dappi]

8 minutes ago, c_cubed51 said:

This article appeared in the NZ press today:

Election 2023: Slower speeds avoid 34 crashes on one road, and made journeys 3.6 minutes longer (msn.com)

Could the same results occur in the UK?

Thank you for that. I certainly hope so but at least one other cannot see the wood for the trees.

[Alteredbhoy]

3 hours ago, ruby said:

You don't seem to understand if in your accidents people got prosecuted then they were well over the speed limit, so 30 MPH meant nothing to them, so do you really thing they will go at 20 MPH.  Well if you think 30 MPH is fast, I take it you don't drive or you would realise how difficult it is to drive a car designed and geared to go at 30 MPH is. As I said before you are constantly between second and third gear constantly watching your speedo, that is in my diesel with bags of torque I imagine in a petrol engined car it is even worse. An even bigger issue is the issue with HGVs, one Haulier said that at that speed they will constantly be changing clutches, I assume you are either very rich to absorb the extra costs involved to everything you buy or you don't live in Wales. I do hope for his sake the figures come down or else he will be doing security at Tescos. So when does your Rocket blast off, I am sure rowlf will be very pleased to know that, need any hep with the fuel. I am sure there are enough contributors on this site that will cough up.

So because people break the speed limit there is no point having a speed limit?

If the speed limit in urban areas is reduced to 20 mph, then the vast majority of drivers will obey the limit. Those who choose to speed will probably continue to do so when they are able. But during the day when most drivers and pedestrians are about, they won't be able to do so because of the volume of traffic moving at 20 mph.

All you do ruby is look for reasons why limitations on car drivers won't work. You never look for a solution to the problem the internal combustion engine causes.

[ruby]

15 minutes ago, Alteredbhoy said:

So because people break the speed limit there is no point having a speed limit?

If the speed limit in urban areas is reduced to 20 mph, then the vast majority of drivers will obey the limit. Those who choose to speed will probably continue to do so when they are able. But during the day when most drivers and pedestrians are about, they won't be able to do so because of the volume of traffic moving at 20 mph.

All you do ruby is look for reasons why limitations on car drivers won't work. You never look for a solution to the problem the internal combustion engine causes.

Have it your it is pointless arguing with you. Incidentally electric cars go much faster so it is not limited to the internal combustion engine, plus you can't hear them. 

[c_cubed51]

2 hours ago, dappi said:

Thank you for that. I certainly hope so but at least one other cannot see the wood for the trees.

In an earlier post above, I mentioned two categories of people who love to speed.

[Alteredbhoy]

1 hour ago, ruby said:

Have it your it is pointless arguing with you. Incidentally electric cars go much faster so it is not limited to the internal combustion engine, plus you can't hear them. 

But one of your arguments was that cars at 20 mph are more polluting than at 30 mph. That clearly was not an argument concerning EVs.

I argue with you because you are invariably wrong and offer illogical arguments.

[dappi]

44 minutes ago, c_cubed51 said:

In an earlier post above, I mentioned two categories of people who love to speed.

Ah yes, the rich and arrogant or young and stupid.

Who are we dealing with here I wonder, perhaps 'older with a big car and arrogant'?

[rowlf]

2 hours ago, c_cubed51 said:

In an earlier post above, I mentioned two categories of people who love to speed.

Wasn't that the gay and the cupreous........ on steroids?

[helen]

STOP PRESS!

The word on the street is Rishi plans to cement his position as the motorists’ champion with a “Plan for Motorists” to be announced at the party conference.

This is expected to include:

• Limits on local authorities’ abilities to levy fines from traffic cameras.
• Restrictions on enforcing box junction infringements.
• Limit on English councils’ powers to place 20mph speed limits on main roads.

He stops short of making stopping at red lights optional.

Councils have not been consulted over the plans.

Speaking to BBC Radio Manchester, Sunak argued that prioritising driving was the best policy, as “the vast majority” of the journeys that people made were in cars.

Not on foot?
Methinks Rishi is making it up as he goes along.

A town council near me did a survey asking what people wanted in their town centre. The answer was:
Wider pavements, more cycle lanes and lower speed limits.
The council has set about doing this. They had better be quick before he makes it illegal.

 

[ruby]

1 hour ago, helen said:

STOP PRESS!

The word on the street is Rishi plans to cement his position as the motorists’ champion with a “Plan for Motorists” to be announced at the party conference.

This is expected to include:

• Limits on local authorities’ abilities to levy fines from traffic cameras.
• Restrictions on enforcing box junction infringements.
• Limit on English councils’ powers to place 20mph speed limits on main roads.

He stops short of making stopping at red lights optional.

Councils have not been consulted over the plans.

Speaking to BBC Radio Manchester, Sunak argued that prioritising driving was the best policy, as “the vast majority” of the journeys that people made were in cars.

Not on foot?
Methinks Rishi is making it up as he goes along.

A town council near me did a survey asking what people wanted in their town centre. The answer was:
Wider pavements, more cycle lanes and lower speed limits.
The council has set about doing this. They had better be quick before he makes it illegal.

 

I know a council that did exactly that, the town centre is now a ghost town. So why would you want to cycle there?

[dappi]

1 hour ago, helen said:

STOP PRESS!

The word on the street is Rishi plans to cement his position as the motorists’ champion with a “Plan for Motorists” to be announced at the party conference.

This is expected to include:

• Limits on local authorities’ abilities to levy fines from traffic cameras.
• Restrictions on enforcing box junction infringements.
• Limit on English councils’ powers to place 20mph speed limits on main roads.

He stops short of making stopping at red lights optional.

Councils have not been consulted over the plans.

Speaking to BBC Radio Manchester, Sunak argued that prioritising driving was the best policy, as “the vast majority” of the journeys that people made were in cars.

Not on foot?
Methinks Rishi is making it up as he goes along.

A town council near me did a survey asking what people wanted in their town centre. The answer was:
Wider pavements, more cycle lanes and lower speed limits.
The council has set about doing this. They had better be quick before he makes it illegal.

 

My take on this is that Rishi is using his latest interest in cars as a means of transport to deflect from all the recent questions he is getting about HS2 and the possibility of him cancelling the Northern part of the project.

[helen]

2 hours ago, ruby said:

I know a council that did exactly that, the town centre is now a ghost town. So why would you want to cycle there?

People want to cycle everywhere.
Not so long ago I saw someone lift his bike off a train onto a very crowded platform. He got on it and started off along the platform until an angry member of the station staff shouted at him.
They don’t even think about it.
I think I fear the cyclists on the pavement more than I fear the cars on the road.

I am now waiting for Rishi to work out that our town centres had a lot more shops before they were pedestrianised.

[Alteredbhoy]

14 minutes ago, helen said:

I am now waiting for Rishi to work out that our town centres had a lot more shops before they were pedestrianised.

I hope he can identify the difference between causation and correlation.

We also had a lot more shops before smoking was banned in public places. And (dare I say it?) before Brexit.

[ruby]

59 minutes ago, helen said:

People want to cycle everywhere.
Not so long ago I saw someone lift his bike off a train onto a very crowded platform. He got on it and started off along the platform until an angry member of the station staff shouted at him.
They don’t even think about it.
I think I fear the cyclists on the pavement more than I fear the cars on the road.

I am now waiting for Rishi to work out that our town centres had a lot more shops before they were pedestrianised.

No electric scooters are worse, the idiots don't even understand it is a good idea to wear a helmet. You can't hear then either. The really funny thing is you see them abandoned at the side of the road literally anywhere.

[ruby]

Just to think Starmer was riding the wave the next election would be a walkover then this "dickhead" decides to do something illogical and it all goes horribly wrong. Starmer will probably just win the next election but it could have been so much easier and probably to pick up votes he will probably ditch many of his previous policies. I see the 20 MPH speed limit in Wales is going down really well, new timetables on buses plus all that confusion on speed limit signs. With all that confusing signage I think we can forget speeding fines.

[Alteredbhoy]

1 hour ago, ruby said:

Just to think Starmer was riding the wave the next election would be a walkover then this "dickhead" decides to do something illogical and it all goes horribly wrong. Starmer will probably just win the next election but it could have been so much easier and probably to pick up votes he will probably ditch many of his previous policies. I see the 20 MPH speed limit in Wales is going down really well, new timetables on buses plus all that confusion on speed limit signs. With all that confusing signage I think we can forget speeding fines.

Sunak has it within his power to get Parliament to pass this legislation now. In which case the effects of speeding and blocking yellow boxes not being enforced will soon become apparent. If the Welsh 20 mph does reduce RTC fatalities, then it will quite potentially be a significant vote loser for Sunak.

I imagine though that he will offer it as red meat for his election manifesto, rather than adopt the carnage now.

[ruby]

22 minutes ago, Alteredbhoy said:

Sunak has it within his power to get Parliament to pass this legislation now. In which case the effects of speeding and blocking yellow boxes not being enforced will soon become apparent. If the Welsh 20 mph does reduce RTC fatalities, then it will quite potentially be a significant vote loser for Sunak.

I imagine though that he will offer it as red meat for his election manifesto, rather than adopt the carnage now.

If it does reduce RTC the results won't really become apparent until after the next election, the negative side of it, slow buses, people taking longer to get anywhere, service not arriving on time will become obvious much quicker. In one town they even said it takes longer to cross the road because of "bunching" of cars. So I doubt it is a vote winner, definitely upsets an awful lot of people 400,000 on that petition last count. As with Brexit there is a silent majority in this country that don't say anything but has a huge effect when it comes to voting.

[Alteredbhoy]

1 hour ago, ruby said:

If it does reduce RTC the results won't really become apparent until after the next election, the negative side of it, slow buses, people taking longer to get anywhere, service not arriving on time will become obvious much quicker. In one town they even said it takes longer to cross the road because of "bunching" of cars. So I doubt it is a vote winner, definitely upsets an awful lot of people 400,000 on that petition last count. As with Brexit there is a silent majority in this country that don't say anything but has a huge effect when it comes to voting.

How can you possibly know that there is a large silent majority that say nothing? You can only know if they are telling you, in which case they are not silent.

What you mean is that you are opposed to the anti-car measures and believe that the majority are like you. But you are most definitely not silent about it. Though I wish you were.

[ruby]

4 minutes ago, Alteredbhoy said:

How can you possibly know that there is a large silent majority that say nothing? You can only know if they are telling you, in which case they are not silent.

What you mean is that you are opposed to the anti-car measures and believe that the majority are like you. But you are most definitely not silent about it. Though I wish you were.

Again as I said before pointless arguing with you, have it your way. 

[Alteredbhoy]

1 hour ago, ruby said:

Again as I said before pointless arguing with you, have it your way. 

Well I asked you to explain your words, as they appear to me to be contradictory. I guess the pointless element stems from the fact that you cannot explain the contradiction, but that it doesn't affect your opinion. That does pretty much makes your opinion pointless.

[ruby]

Well it appears I am not the only one that thinks it is a dumb idea.

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/blanket-20mph-speed-limits-roads-112526178.html

 

 

[helen]

44 minutes ago, ruby said:

Well it appears I am not the only one that thinks it is a dumb idea.

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/blanket-20mph-speed-limits-roads-112526178.html

I heard that interview. Mark Harper, the Transport secretary, was struggling a bit. He kept changing the subject, repeating ‘blanket ban’ and ‘Welsh labour’ in order to avoid answering the question which was about something else. The interviewer had to clarify, at the end, that there is no blanket ban.

Cars and speed limits are now a ‘wedge issue’ and part of the wider culture war, so we must expect a lot more disinformation and scaremongering like turning a selective 20mph speed limit into a ‘blanket ban’.

As an occasional car driver I am grateful to Mark Harper and to Rishi for pointing out how persecuted I have been all these years. The scales have fallen from my eyes. I am now wallowing in my newfound victimhood.

It’s that Liberal Elite again. They’ve all got it infamy.

[helen]

I think I said expect more disinformation and scaremongering.
Here’s transport secretary Mark Harper again at the party conference:

“There’s nothing wrong with making sure people can walk or cycle to the shops or school. That’s traditional town planning.
“But what is different, what is sinister, and what we shouldn’t tolerate, is the idea that local councils can decide how often you go to the shops, and that they can ration who uses the roads and when, and that they police it all with CCTV.”

Some will believe it.

[ruby]

23 minutes ago, helen said:

I think I said expect more disinformation and scaremongering.
Here’s transport secretary Mark Harper again at the party conference:

“There’s nothing wrong with making sure people can walk or cycle to the shops or school. That’s traditional town planning.
“But what is different, what is sinister, and what we shouldn’t tolerate, is the idea that local councils can decide how often you go to the shops, and that they can ration who uses the roads and when, and that they police it all with CCTV.”

Some will believe it.

I think you will find that was the scheme both Oxford and Canterbury were considering. In Canterbury's case it eventually got thrown out along with their leader whose stupid idea it was.

[Alteredbhoy]

16 minutes ago, ruby said:

I think you will find that was the scheme both Oxford and Canterbury were considering. In Canterbury's case it eventually got thrown out along with their leader whose stupid idea it was.

I think you'll find it wasn't.

Show me where either Council tried to restrict the number of times you could drive a vehicle anywhere?

Simply scaremongering to justify your motor car obsession doesn't make it true.

[ruby]

41 minutes ago, Alteredbhoy said:

I think you'll find it wasn't.

Show me where either Council tried to restrict the number of times you could drive a vehicle anywhere?

Simply scaremongering to justify your motor car obsession doesn't make it true.

Go back and read my post properly it says "were considering" which means it hasn't happened yet. Probably the positive examples on how to lose Public support and ultimately lose your job, has put both parties off.

[dappi]

On 28/09/2023 at 19:31, dappi said:

My take on this is that Rishi is using his latest interest in cars as a means of transport to deflect from all the recent questions he is getting about HS2 and the possibility of him cancelling the Northern part of the project.

Ahem, I will now apply to go on Mastermind.

My specialist subject will be 'stating the bleeding onvious.'

[dappi]

Just now, dappi said:

Ahem, I will now apply to go on Mastermind.

My specialist subject will be 'stating the bleeding onvious.'

Oops bleeding obvious.

[Alteredbhoy]

50 minutes ago, ruby said:

Go back and read my post properly it says "were considering" which means it hasn't happened yet. Probably the positive examples on how to lose Public support and ultimately lose your job, has put both parties off.

Go back and read my post properly. They were not considering the things you complain though we're.

Show us some evidence that they were considering restricting the number of journeys people could make.

English is obviously not your forte.