Detransition: Myths and Facts

[Ursula Harrison]

8 minutes ago, c_cubed51 said:

I wonder if anyone in the crowd had a phone with the "Anti Trans Hate Crime" app on it? They could have used it to report an anti-Anti Trans Hate Crime, which would have appealed to my warped sense of humour and called out this person for their hateful comment, by which you correctly feel offended.

That creature wasn't calling for violence against trans people but against women. Their rights so often get pushed to the back of the queue. So what use would an anti-trans app have been?

10 minutes ago, c_cubed51 said:

Then I realised that this person is using their right to Freedom of Speech, something you feel really passionate about.

You little weasel. You squirm and squirm to try and avoid facing the fact that this is the activism that you call me hateful for opposing. Freedom of speech does not extend to incitement to violence which this clearly is. Even AB would struggle to shrug this off as someone expressing an opinion.

13 minutes ago, c_cubed51 said:

You picked up only on the line which offended you

It kinda stands out.

14 minutes ago, c_cubed51 said:

I think that ought to offend you, but it does not. It offends me.

'The rights of prisoners' really is an interesting topic for debate.

Go on then, explain to me how their lot is improved by punching women in the face.

[c_cubed51]

2 hours ago, Ursula Harrison said:

From incitement to violence to actual violence while the police stand by and do nothing but then have stern words with the victim.

So Cubed. You support those brave ninja wannbees in their courageous battle for trans rights? Aren't I evil for saying "not in my name"?

Of course the police don't always sit on their arse. Here they are throwing lesbians out of a Pride Parade (yes, you read that right) on the say so of trans activists.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFmxlyEv2RU&pp=ygUibGVzYmlhbnMgcmVtb3ZlZCBmcm9tIHByaWRlIHBhcmFkZQ%3D%3D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mObLe2YGnB4

I bet that cop was bullied at school.

As my dear friend Penelope is fond of saying, you couldn't make this shit up.

Every now and then, when visiting my sister, I watch them enjoying Sky News Australia, which is the down-under equivalent of Fox News. I am enthralled by the obvious right-wing bias the presenters project. 

I was not there. I cannot say objectively who was in the right or wrong. This 'Stalinist' decries violence. This 'Stalinist' chants "love thy neighbour", as Mr Rogers did, and you mock him.

You don't like the police. I wonder why.

 

[c_cubed51]

5 minutes ago, Ursula Harrison said:

That creature wasn't calling for violence against trans people but against women. Their rights so often get pushed to the back of the queue. So what use would an anti-trans app have been?

You little weasel. You squirm and squirm to try and avoid facing the fact that this is the activism that you call me hateful for opposing. Freedom of speech does not extend to incitement to violence which this clearly is. Even AB would struggle to shrug this off as someone expressing an opinion.

It kinda stands out.

Go on then, explain to me how their lot is improved by punching women in the face.

See my post just above. 

Edited September 14 by c_cubed51

[Ursula Harrison]

3 minutes ago, c_cubed51 said:

I am enthralled by the obvious right-wing bias the presenters project. 

If opposition to misogyny and violence against women is now the preserve of the right then that is to the shame of the left.

4 minutes ago, c_cubed51 said:

I was not there. I cannot say objectively who was in the right or wrong.

Weasel! There's a clue in the trans activists dressing in masks and balaclavas. Men manhandling a woman and you can't say who's in the wrong.

[Ursula Harrison]

6 minutes ago, c_cubed51 said:

See my post just above.

I saw it. But nowhere within it did I see an explanation of how punching women in the face advances the cause of prisoners' rights.

Your hypocrisy is laid bare for all to see.

[c_cubed51]

1 hour ago, Ursula Harrison said:

By the way Cubed don't profess your faith too loudly. You wouldn't want to end up on the wrong side of the law for promoting conversion therapy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFs5UXKfL78

This is really interesting, because our Labour government is presently trying to pass a Bill into law which is essentially the same as the one being discussed. A concerned fellow-parishioner approached me last Sunday for my views. He sent me a lot of documentation. I read it, and found myself agreeing that such a piece of legislation really has no place on our statutes!

I can see it being used against certain individuals, and not against others. As a teacher, I think it opens a can of worms about what we can and can't teach; what vidoes we can and cant' show.

So, I am in the corner of the 'freedom of speech' advocates. Surprising, not so?

I'm a Libertarian at heart.

[c_cubed51]

3 minutes ago, Ursula Harrison said:

If opposition to misogyny and violence against women is now the preserve of the right then that is to the shame of the left.

Weasel! There's a clue in the trans activists dressing in masks and balaclavas. Men manhandling a woman and you can't say who's in the wrong.

Remember the violence which erupted in Wellington during the anti-vaxx protests? Much was said by right-wingers about the brutality of the police, but no mention was made of those 'protesters' who threw fire extinguishers at the police, breaking bones.

There are two sides to every story. Sky News Australia peddles their side only. Hardly balanced journalism.

I decry all violence, and oppose misogyny.

[Sarah_Connor]

4 hours ago, rowlf said:

Ah, the 'pros from Dover', making a better world for themselves no matter the collateral damage.

China Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad . Trans ageeeeeeeendaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad, 

[Sarah_Connor]

29 minutes ago, Ursula Harrison said:

That creature wasn't calling for violence against trans people but against women. Their rights so often get pushed to the back of the queue. So what use would an anti-trans app have been?

You little weasel. You squirm and squirm to try and avoid facing the fact that this is the activism that you call me hateful for opposing. Freedom of speech does not extend to incitement to violence which this clearly is. Even AB would struggle to shrug this off as someone expressing an opinion.

It kinda stands out.

Go on then, explain to me how their lot is improved by punching women in the face.

Sorry, I gotta do some whataboutery. Neo Nazi's in Melbourne at Posie Parker rally.

 

[Ursula Harrison]

3 minutes ago, Sarah_Connor said:

Sorry, I gotta do some whataboutery. Neo Nazi's in Melbourne at Posie Parker rally.

Nazis baaaaaaaaaaaad. 

That's easy for me to say as I'm not the one with a predilection for dressing up in SS uniform. 😇

But I'm a little confused. How does punching women in the face help fight National Socialism?

[c_cubed51]

37 minutes ago, Ursula Harrison said:

That creature wasn't calling for violence against trans people but against women. Their rights so often get pushed to the back of the queue. So what use would an anti-trans app have been?

I have learned that people who are blinded by hegemony cannot see how the use of the opposition's own tools to call out their misdeeds is a powerful way of highlighting the farce in such a situation.

I referred to an anti-Anti Trans Hate app. You did not appreciate the humour. Don't let irrational anger cause you to view any situation with a telescope firmly planted in your blind eye.

[c_cubed51]

1 minute ago, Ursula Harrison said:

Nazis baaaaaaaaaaaad. 

That's easy for me to say as I'm not the one with a predilection for dressing up in SS uniform. 😇

But I'm a little confused. How does punching women in the face help fight National Socialism?

Sigh ... there are two sides to every story. SC was showing the side you love to ignore, whilst criticizing people like me for our seemingly one-sided perspective.

[Ursula Harrison]

1 minute ago, c_cubed51 said:

You did not appreciate the humour.

Guilty as charged. I saw a person waving the flag of a terrorist organisation calling for violence against women and receiving an ovation for doing so. You're right. I didn't get the joke.

[c_cubed51]

2 minutes ago, Ursula Harrison said:

Guilty as charged. I saw a person waving the flag of a terrorist organisation calling for violence against women and receiving an ovation for doing so. You're right. I didn't get the joke.

Perhaps you should join the police force and then arrest the real villains. 🤔

[Ursula Harrison]

4 minutes ago, c_cubed51 said:

Sigh ... there are two sides to every story. SC was showing the side you love to ignore, whilst criticizing people like me for our seemingly one-sided perspective.

I was referring to an event in London. You are correct in saying that I did not give much thought to an event 12000 miles away several months previous to that.

If Penelope is trying to make the point that there are bad actors all over the place on both sides of every argument I'm happy to go along with that.

But those Nazis were on the fringe of that event, not invited by Posey Parker. Jane Baker had a microphone. She was a scheduled speaker and the crowd approved of the hate she spewed.

 

[Ursula Harrison]

6 minutes ago, c_cubed51 said:

Perhaps you should join the police force and then arrest the real villains.

That's not what the police do.

[Ursula Harrison]

27 minutes ago, Sarah_Connor said:

Sorry, I gotta do some whataboutery.

No need to apologise Penelope, just let me join in.

While we're on your turf:

That'll show those filthy Nazis!

[c_cubed51]

1 minute ago, Ursula Harrison said:

I was referring to an event in London. You are correct in saying that I did not give much thought to an event 12000 miles away several months previous to that.

If Penelope is trying to make the point that there are bad actors all over the place on both sides of every argument I'm happy to go along with that.

But those Nazis were on the fringe of that event, not invited by Posey Parker. Jane Baker had a microphone. She was a scheduled speaker and the crowd approved of the hate she spewed.

I agree with you that hate speech is a no-no. The conversion therapy legislation sounds wonderful, until one realizes the wider implications of any anti-hate legislation. 

Freedom of Speech covers the rights of all individuals, without need for further protection. And it protects everyone, too.

Things that happen in Manchester or on Malta affect the whole global village.

[c_cubed51]

4 minutes ago, Ursula Harrison said:

That's not what the police do.

That's exactly why you should join, to change the ethos from within.

[Sarah_Connor]

11 hours ago, Ursula Harrison said:

No need to apologise Penelope, just let me join in.

While we're on your turf:

That'll show those filthy Nazis!

The person was charged with assault. In NZ that means you get slapped on the wrist with a wet tram ticket. I don't excuse that assault, it was deplorable.

Nothing more to be said.
 

 

11 hours ago, Ursula Harrison said:

But those Nazis were on the fringe of that event, not invited by Posey Parker. Jane Baker had a microphone. She was a scheduled speaker and the crowd approved of the hate she spewed.

 

Look I get it. The Nazi's have absolutely nothing to do with far right libertarian billionaires who are trying to destabilize society and stop all these goddamn wokesters, niggers, lesbians, homos, groomer trannies and communist blue collar workers and so on enjoying rights and standards of living afforded to the middle (read buffer zone) class. Nothing at all.

Ask Rowlf. He's one of their drones, he knows.

China baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad

[Ursula Harrison]

21 minutes ago, Sarah_Connor said:

Nazi's have absolutely nothing to do with far right libertarian billionaires

Possibly. Because for one thing it's bad PR to be associated with Nazis.

Believe it or not Penelope I agree with much of the sentiment that I detect behind your post. As I said to your compatriot, I always considered myself left of centre but then the centre moved and I perceived the threat coming from a different direction.

Take care.

[Sarah_Connor]

4 minutes ago, Ursula Harrison said:

Possibly. Because for one thing it's bad PR to be associated with Nazis.

Believe it or not Penelope I agree with much of the sentiment that I detect behind your post. As I said to your compatriot, I always considered myself left of centre but then the centre moved and I perceived the threat coming from a different direction.

Take care.

Who'd have thought. You, a communist.  I'm shocked. SHOCKED! 

Next you'll tell me Rowlf is a nice person, really. Just misunderstood.

[Sarah_Connor]

6 minutes ago, Ursula Harrison said:

Possibly. Because for one thing it's bad PR to be associated with Nazis.

Believe it or not Penelope I agree with much of the sentiment that I detect behind your post. As I said to your compatriot, I always considered myself left of centre but then the centre moved and I perceived the threat coming from a different direction.

Take care.

Also, your truncation of my quote is a neat trick but how you reference it isn't how I said, nor meant it...

[Ursula Harrison]

9 minutes ago, Sarah_Connor said:

Next you'll tell me Rowlf is a nice person, really. Just misunderstood.

Frequently. At least I don't understand what he's on about a lot of the time. Do you?

[Ursula Harrison]

I really wasn't trying to quote you out of context so let me try again.

43 minutes ago, Sarah_Connor said:

Look I get it. The Nazi's have absolutely nothing to do with far right libertarian billionaires who are trying to destabilize society and stop all these goddamn wokesters, niggers, lesbians, homos, groomer trannies and communist blue collar workers and so on enjoying rights and standards of living afforded to the middle (read buffer zone) class. Nothing at all.

My take on that is firstly, as I said

20 minutes ago, Ursula Harrison said:

Possibly. Because for one thing it's bad PR to be associated with Nazis.

The Nazis might well want to be associated with the billionaires because despite the bullshit propagated by Ben Shapiro and the like, the Nazis were/are not of the left. But I don't think that works the other way. You can make a connection based on "my enemy's enemy is my friend" but I think it's a rather tenuous one.

For one thing why would billionaires want to destabilise society? It's rigged in their favour. They have the politicians in their pockets, the tax system favours them and they make the most money from globalisation.

Furthermore on the issue at question in Wellington, which is the example you brought up, why would billionaires object to trans activists? As you pointed out earlier in the thread (and I agreed) there's money to be made in transitioning people. So this is at least one issue where the Nazis and the billionaires are on opposite sides.

58 minutes ago, Sarah_Connor said:

Look I get it. The Nazi's have absolutely nothing to do with far right libertarian billionaires who are trying to destabilize society and stop all these goddamn wokesters, niggers, lesbians, homos, groomer trannies and communist blue collar workers and so on enjoying rights and standards of living afforded to the middle (read buffer zone) class. Nothing at all.

This was the bit where I thought I detected a sentiment with which I could agree with. Perhaps I read too much between the lines. If so it was a genuine mistake on my part and not an attempt to misrepresent you.

But I had to read between the lines because your lumping together sexual orientation and gender with class makes no sense.

I also refrained from underlining "wokesters" as they're intent on suppressing rights not fighting for them.

[Ursula Harrison]

1 hour ago, Sarah_Connor said:

The Nazi's have absolutely nothing to do with far right libertarian billionaires who are trying to destabilize society

However close or far apart the Nazis and the billionaires may be to one another the ones trying to destabilise society are the likes of Antifa and the Socialist Workers Party. As I've said before, they'll attach themselves to any cause without actually giving a shit about it as long as it gives them an opportunity to create mayhem. Climate change, Black Lives Matter, trans activism. Any cause will do. Their real target is capitalism.

I suspect Penelope that we both agree that capitalism is not a benevolent system but one with more losers than winners. So if anyone could suggest a better one I'd be all for it. But the only suggestion these assholes ever make is communism which has been shown time and again to be much worse and where everyone's a loser.

A man quoting Karl Marx prompts me to quote Bob Dylan

"How many deaths will it take 'til he knows that too many people have died?"

[c_cubed51]

22 hours ago, Ursula Harrison said:

That's not what the police do.

A case of the justice system in NI acting appropriately?

Jolene Bunting loses appeal over drag queen video post - BBC News

 

[Ursula Harrison]

The fine was for defying a court order which is a silly thing to do.

But just goes to prove my point that the police would rather be monitoring people's social media than tackling real crime.

She said something uncomplimentary about a drag queen. So fucking what?

[c_cubed51]

1 hour ago, Ursula Harrison said:

The fine was for defying a court order which is a silly thing to do.

But just goes to prove my point that the police would rather be monitoring people's social media than tackling real crime.

She said something uncomplimentary about a drag queen. So fucking what?

So, harassing a drag queen is not a 'real crime'?

Also, this is exactly what that bloke in Canada got jailed for, you remember, the bloke who rowlf claimed was jailed for opposing his daughter's transition.

Two sides of the same coin, not so?

Edited September 15 by c_cubed51

[Sarah_Connor]

9 hours ago, Ursula Harrison said:

The fine was for defying a court order which is a silly thing to do.

But just goes to prove my point that the police would rather be monitoring people's social media than tackling real crime.

She said something uncomplimentary about a drag queen. So fucking what?

That's you up to your tricks again.

Jolene Bunting was harassing the drag performer named Cherrie Ontop.  She was also called a wolf in make up which I thought ridiculous as Cherrie looks damn good all made up, but there was the very obvious association with Little Red Riding Hood. And once again a drag artist/ transperson (or whatever) is tagged with that tired old trope that we're all monsters. When do you take a stand and say enough of this shit?

Oh I know, free speech !

[c_cubed51]

1 hour ago, Sarah_Connor said:

 When do you take a stand and say enough of this shit?

Oh I know, free speech !

What I would love to know is this: Why is Ursula so anti the police? Does she have some sort of history with them?

[rowlf]

4 hours ago, c_cubed51 said:

What I would love to know is this: Why is Ursula so anti the police? Does she have some sort of history with them?

Hmm, the beginning of a conspiracy theory?

[Alteredbhoy]

5 minutes ago, rowlf said:

Hmm, the beginning of a conspiracy theory?

Only if you are looking for a conspiracy theory. Which it appears you always do if there is any political gain to be made from it.

[rowlf]

11 minutes ago, Alteredbhoy said:

Only if you are looking for a conspiracy theory. Which it appears you always do if there is any political gain to be made from it.

Is this the way you see it every time you use the phrase?

[c_cubed51]

7 hours ago, rowlf said:

Hmm, the beginning of a conspiracy theory?

Not at all!!!

I have explained the origins of my anti-racist views on this forum.

Perhaps Ursula would care to explain why she is so anti- the police?

She has set out the reasons for feeling why trans people do not speak for her.

[Ursula Harrison]

12 hours ago, Sarah_Connor said:

That's you up to your tricks again.

🙄🥱

12 hours ago, Sarah_Connor said:

She was also called a wolf in make up which I thought ridiculous as Cherrie looks damn good all made up

That's a difference of opinion. Obviously Miss Bunting's opinion is not very complimentary. No, to be fair, it's downright insulting.

12 hours ago, Sarah_Connor said:

Oh I know, free speech !

Well, yeah, if you want to make it about that but I wouldn't hype it up to that extent. I just say (yet again) "sticks and stones..."

I've had worse things said (and shouted) about me and even to my face on occasion. By you among others. I either ignored it or threw something back at you. I didn't call the police.

13 hours ago, Sarah_Connor said:

there was the very obvious association with Little Red Riding Hood

So obvious that I did not spot it.

[Ursula Harrison]

13 hours ago, Sarah_Connor said:

When do you take a stand and say enough of this shit?

I defend myself when attacked. I don't get worked up about a woman saying nasty things about drag queens because as I've told you before so many drag queens' repertoire consists of an insulting, mocking parody of women. If you can't take it don't dish it out.

Lesbians chucked out of Pride parades on the say so of trans people. Guys dressed as ninjas attacking women. Calls for women to be punched in the face and women actually punched in the face. Police calling people to tell them to check their thinking or bring them in for questioning because they've expressed an opinion that doesn't toe the trans lobby party line. Nine year old children gunned down in a school in Nashville. 

I said enough of this shit a long time ago.

[Ursula Harrison]

13 hours ago, Sarah_Connor said:

When do you take a stand and say enough of this shit?

According to you the far right are transphobic and the picture you uploaded from Wellington proves that at least some of them certainly are. When I tell you the author of a book on the Tavistock controversy is a Guardian journalist, you reply that the Guardian is transphobic. So apparently the right and the left are transphobic.

Now the actions of trans activists have resulted in the formation of groups such as LGB Alliance and Get The L Out. So sections of the gay community, our staunchest allies for decades, are turning against us.

And as I said above:

11 minutes ago, Ursula Harrison said:

Lesbians chucked out of Pride parades on the say so of trans people. Guys dressed as ninjas attacking women. Calls for women to be punched in the face and women actually punched in the face. Police calling people to tell them to check their thinking or bring them in for questioning because they've expressed an opinion that doesn't toe the trans lobby party line. Nine year old children gunned down in a school in Nashville. 

So maybe you and your friends the activists need to ask not when am I going to make a stand but another question:

[Sarah_Connor]

18 minutes ago, Ursula Harrison said:

According to you the far right are transphobic and the picture you uploaded from Wellington proves that at least some of them certainly are. When I tell you the author of a book on the Tavistock controversy is a Guardian journalist, you reply that the Guardian is transphobic. So apparently the right and the left are transphobic.

Now the actions of trans activists have resulted in the formation of groups such as LGB Alliance and Get The L Out. So sections of the gay community, our staunchest allies for decades, are turning against us.

And as I said above:

So maybe you and your friends the activists need to ask not when am I going to make a stand but another question:

Stop your false dichotomy nonsense. Clearly there are people of far right political persuasion who are transphobic. They are specifically funding hate organisations to entrap conservative minded folks like yourself into their web. Congratulations you are doing the bidding of Koch et al  

The Guardian article was transphobic. There was a petition signed by over 500 of their employees that they felt the Guardian was transphobic.  That doesn't mean "The left" is transphobic. Fucksake.

If sections of the gay community are turning against transpeople (who's this us you refer to?) it's because they too are ensnared in the hate web being funded by billionaire assholes who like nothing better than distracting you while they run off with the silverware. Not to mention it's fairly obvious to anyone with half a brain that the anti trans rhetoric is merely repackaged anti gay rhetoric which in itself was re packaged anti feminism rhetoric. It's all serving the same ultimate purpose: Conservative (libertarian??) Christofascists want women to be subjugated and breeding. That they can co opt lesbians for a little while is just how the game works. They'll be kicked off the train at the next station, once the pesky transpeople are dispatched.  Freedom? These libertarians (isn't that such an oxymoron) don't want people to be free..


 

[Ursula Harrison]

16 minutes ago, Sarah_Connor said:

Not to mention it's fairly obvious to anyone with half a brain that the anti trans rhetoric is merely repackaged anti gay rhetoric which in itself was re packaged anti feminism rhetoric. It's all serving the same ultimate purpose: Conservative (libertarian??) Christofascists want women to be subjugated and breeding.

Again I hope I'm not taking you out of context because while I can see some sense in what you say here I think you've rather over-simplified and I don't agree with all of it.

But taking it at face value for the sake of argument. Don't you think that it could be the trans activists ensnared in a web of hate?

I mean forcing women (lesbians) to accept transpeople (males) at a speed dating event, trying to pressure them into having sex with biological males strikes me as in line with the agenda of subjugating women.

Anti feminism rhetoric? Now come on Penelope. Isn't it the trans activists and people like you that throw "TERF" about as a term of abuse and insult? Don't tell me that you didn't know that it's an acronym for Trans Excluding Radical Feminist.

Edited September 16 by Ursula Harrison