Detransition: Myths and Facts

[Rikki]

I have used female facilities many many times, I have still never seen one that doesn’t have single lockable private cubicles…. 

I have used communal facilities also many a time, they have urinals in a separate section and single lockable cubicles, either is available to anyone who wants to use them.

 In either case not one single person I have seen, met or even chatted to, has objected to any other person using the facilities. 
 

With regard to potential offenders in these places, as has been stated here many a time, if anyone is intent on committing a crime in these places, a sign on a door, or a rule concerning who can use which facility, is not going to stop them. 
 

Typical ill thought out right wing nut job bollox.

[rowlf]

22 minutes ago, c_cubed51 said:

94 - 97% of sexual offences are carried out by cis males. As I said, reading for understanding is not your forte.

Be sure to read  the last link, rowlf.

This is one of the reasons why I don't put much faith in what I read. I don't know where you get your info, but it appears bogus. What is the source of the artical?

No matter, I don't care about your data. Transwomen should keep out of cis women's restrooms. Trans women should not fight cis women. These demands made by you have no idea who they are, but you choose to believe them. I'll say again, that is a dangerous thing. However, you go along with it as they're no alternatives that you are allowed to believe within your group. You must believe, or you're 'disinvited.

Would you go along with Trump if he believed in child mutations? I think not. But if the powers that bring it up, it's a different story. You are owned you don't mind one bit. That check will keep on coming. And you are hesitant to meander through unknown avenues. That thought is hateful for you.

[rowlf]

12 minutes ago, Rikki said:

I have used female facilities many many times, I have still never seen one that doesn’t have single lockable private cubicles…. 

I have used communal facilities also many a time, they have urinals in a separate section and single lockable cubicles, either is available to anyone who wants to use them.

 In either case not one single person I have seen, met or even chatted to, has objected to any other person using the facilities. 
 

With regard to potential offenders in these places, as has been stated here many a time, if anyone is intent on committing a crime in these places, a sign on a door, or a rule concerning who can use which facility, is not going to stop them. 
 

Typical ill thought out right wing nut job bollox.

From an ill thought out left wing nut job bollox.

[Alteredbhoy]

31 minutes ago, rowlf said:

This is one of the reasons why I don't put much faith in what I read. I don't know where you get your info, but it appears bogus. What is the source of the artical?

No matter, I don't care about your data. Transwomen should keep out of cis women's restrooms. Trans women should not fight cis women. These demands made by you have no idea who they are, but you choose to believe them. I'll say again, that is a dangerous thing. However, you go along with it as they're no alternatives that you are allowed to believe within your group. You must believe, or you're 'disinvited.

Would you go along with Trump if he believed in child mutations? I think not. But if the powers that bring it up, it's a different story. You are owned you don't mind one bit. That check will keep on coming. And you are hesitant to meander through unknown avenues. That thought is hateful for you.

Yeah, you don't believe anything unless it corresponds to your views. We know.

Any inconvenient truth and you ignore it.

You don't need to read anything for understanding, because you already know what you need to know. Either you guys instinct or Tucker Carlson already told you.

As for bogus figured, don't forget that you underestimated the proportion of the population that considers themselves to be transgendered by a factor of 100. So your claiming not to recognise the numbers is no surprise to anyone with any numeric ability. What you mean is that the numbers don't match your preconceived ideas.

It's why you've been unable to offer any evidence for your distasteful suggestion that gender dysphoria is just a "silly idea". There is no evidence to suggest it, but you cling to it to justify your prejudices.

And unable to argue or support your position in any meaningful manner you resort to your usual tropes about MSM, big Government and Chinese Colonialism.

The lack of intellectual rigour in your argument shines through.

You are just an ignorant opinionated old bigot.

[rowlf]

17 minutes ago, Alteredbhoy said:

Yeah, you don't believe anything unless it corresponds to your views. We know.

Any inconvenient truth and you ignore it.

You don't need to read anything for understanding, because you already know what you need to know. Either you guys instinct or Tucker Carlson already told you.

As for bogus figured, don't forget that you underestimated the proportion of the population that considers themselves to be transgendered by a factor of 100. So your claiming not to recognise the numbers is no surprise to anyone with any numeric ability. What you mean is that the numbers don't match your preconceived ideas.

It's why you've been unable to offer any evidence for your distasteful suggestion that gender dysphoria is just a "silly idea". There is no evidence to suggest it, but you cling to it to justify your prejudices.

And unable to argue or support your position in any meaningful manner you resort to your usual tropes about MSM, big Government and Chinese Colonialism.

The lack of intellectual rigour in your argument shines through.

You are just an ignorant opinionated old bigot.

I was going to ask cubed, as he's the smarter one of the two, but what do you consider the odds of a group of millions of people that think exactly the same damned things down to the Nth degree? Would you call it a cult? Or just a bunch of angry, sorry losers?

[Alteredbhoy]

15 minutes ago, rowlf said:

I was going to ask cubed, as he's the smarter one of the two, but what do you consider the odds of a group of millions of people that think exactly the same damned things down to the Nth degree? Would you call it a cult? Or just a bunch of angry, sorry losers?

You believe everyone thinks the same way about everything. They don't. It's your paranoia talking.

It is not surprising that the vast majority of the population believe that people with a medical condition should be treated for it. The fact the nearly everyone disagrees with you isn't the result of a conspiracy, but because you are plainly wrong.

You are a whacko, with bizarre views out of kilter with most of humanity. Your paranoia tells you that everyone else is conspiring against you.

[rowlf]

Just now, Alteredbhoy said:

You believe everyone thinks the same way about everything. They don't. It's your paranoia talking.

It is not surprising that the vast majority of the population believe that people with a medical condition should be treated for it. The fact the nearly everyone disagrees with you isn't the result of a conspiracy, but because you are plainly wrong.

You are a whacko, with bizarre views out of kilter with most of humanity. Your paranoia tells you that everyone else is conspiring against you.

Do you and cubed differ upon the opinion of which side you 'dress'? If so, that's the only thing that you have disagreed on.

[Sarah_Connor]

4 hours ago, Ursula Harrison said:

And right on cue:

Hi Penelope! How are you? I hope that you are well and that your good lady's high profile endeavours continue to bring her success and fulfilment.

Well, that's certainly one way to look at it but I see it as more like this:

Be seeing you!

Oh, by the way, give my love to Kittekat.

 

[Sarah_Connor]

2 hours ago, rowlf said:

Would you go along with Trump if he believed in child mutations?

What's this hysterical child mutilations horse shit?


 

[rowlf]

27 minutes ago, Sarah_Connor said:

What's this hysterical child mutilations horse shit?

 

Penny, I was just suggesting that if Trump had originated this horrific sityashun about removing body parts from children all you layabouts would raise holy hell. But seeing as how the idee came from the Big Giant Head, everything seems copacetic with you'uns.

[rowlf]

31 minutes ago, Sarah_Connor said:

 

The only thing to add is, I gotsta know!

[Sarah_Connor]

1 hour ago, rowlf said:

Penny, I was just suggesting that if Trump had originated this horrific sityashun about removing body parts from children all you layabouts would raise holy hell. But seeing as how the idee came from the Big Giant Head, everything seems copacetic with you'uns.

What body parts? Where is this getting done, to whom? I gotsta know...

[Sarah_Connor]

15 minutes ago, Sarah_Connor said:

What body parts? Where is this getting done, to whom? I gotsta know...

I suppose he must mean circumcision. And that's a pretty reasonable point. Funny I don't recall him getting up in arms about it any time in the last however long  have been here. Females have been mutilated for ever in Africa but interestingly because they are black I Rowlf doesn't give a fuck about that.

[Alteredbhoy]

@rowlf you've been comprehensively made to look an idiot on this subject.

Your stance comprises of:

1. Defining a medical condition as a "silly idea", without providing any scientific reasoning for your definition;

2. Refusing to accept any statistical evidence without providing any evidence to counter the statistics or providing any alternative figures; and

3. An assumption that as you are the lone dissenting voice, the unanimity of everyone opposing you must be some form of conspiracy.

You have no valid argument on this subject and all you are able to do is to wail "silly idea" and "Giant head" like a demented parrot. You have systematically and thoroughly been shown to have no knowledge about a subject on which you are prepared to postulate at length.

In short, you have done nothing but highlight your prejudice, ignorance and intellectual limitations, while steadfastly refusing to acknowledge them.

[Ursula Harrison]

11 hours ago, Sarah_Connor said:

 

Very good Penelope! Great to see you entering into the spirit of things! Not quite addressing the same issues but hey, nothing wrong with a bit of diversity!

I suppose the weather is starting to look up in your stretch of wilderness. So hopefully we'll be seeing you out and about again before too long.

[Ursula Harrison]

11 hours ago, Sarah_Connor said:

What's this hysterical child mutilations horse shit?

I presume it refers to rushing kids to transition. By the way, puberty blockers are not as harmless as you seem to think.

Your point about FGM is very well made. The trouble is some people are afraid to tackle it in case they get accused of RAY-cism. Not everybody is as brave as you.

Be seeing you!

[c_cubed51]

18 hours ago, rowlf said:

What about the rights of the cis women. That just want to crap in peace? Do they have any rights at all? Or should it be decided by the 'free riders' of life. I think we know.

This is worth repeating on this thread, rowlf ...

Well, rowlf, Friday 1 September saw the 1,000th teenager aged 12 - 17 killed by gunfire in the USA. You have nothing to say about this, but you have loads to say about the 0 cases of cis women who have been sexually assaulted by trans women in public toilets in the USA this year.

Can you see how stupid you are? 

[rowlf]

2 hours ago, c_cubed51 said:

This is worth repeating on this thread, rowlf ...

Well, rowlf, Friday 1 September saw the 1,000th teenager aged 12 - 17 killed by gunfire in the USA. You have nothing to say about this, but you have loads to say about the 0 cases of cis women who have been sexually assaulted by trans women in public toilets in the USA this year.

Can you see how stupid you are? 

I take it back. Ab may be a little smarter than you.... but not by much! How is it you can compare transpeople with black-on-black killings in Dem cities. As far as where to go to potty, Main St. seems to be a good location for many people.

Take away my guns and those that use them in the inner cities will still have them. Even though they have the strictest gun laws in the nation. I think you should be talking about Dems allowing anarchy in their cities.

However, you deem the prospect of a man dressed as a woman entering a lady's bathroom and locker room would ever have any bad consequences. Nobody would lie about such a thing just to enter for who knows what purpose. And you are willing and able to guarantee that all women should have nothing to worry about.

But it's always about the killings in the US. It's not political, though. You speak from the heart. And you would believe it no matter who told you to believe it.

[rowlf]

3 hours ago, Alteredbhoy said:

@rowlf you've been comprehensively made to look an idiot on this subject.

Your stance comprises of:

1. Defining a medical condition as a "silly idea", without providing any scientific reasoning for your definition;

2. Refusing to accept any statistical evidence without providing any evidence to counter the statistics or providing any alternative figures; and

3. An assumption that as you are the lone dissenting voice, the unanimity of everyone opposing you must be some form of conspiracy.

You have no valid argument on this subject and all you are able to do is to wail "silly idea" and "Giant head" like a demented parrot. You have systematically and thoroughly been shown to have no knowledge about a subject on which you are prepared to postulate at length.

In short, you have done nothing but highlight your prejudice, ignorance and intellectual limitations, while steadfastly refusing to acknowledge them.

You latched on to this and are now using it. I never said this medical condition is 'silly'. It's the steps that we take to 'resolve' this that are silly. And it should be troubling for you to be in 'lock step' with whoever gives you these mandates for action.

Over night, this medical condition went from a young person's wondering about things, and unsure of their feelings. Now it's a proactive thing that we must root out and expose to the world these aggressive measures we must take for the entire LGBTQ+ community.

We must leave the children alone. We've done enough to them. We don't teach them the 3 R's anymore. We teach them 'feelings'. And the feelings we teach them are feelings of defeatism. We currently outreach to other countries to acquire professional people.

And you didn't think these things up on your own. You were told these things of defeatism for a purpose. Just because you're not the sharpest knife in the drawer doesn't mean others aren't honed to a razor's edge. Thus, the 'Big Giant Head'. It refers to a sitcom you can possibly relate to.

Let go of men against women. It's more gross than comical. Protect our women in the restrooms and lockers. We don't know what kind of 'Joefuckaround' is going in and out of these places. And for God's sake decriminalize pronouns!

Anyone for 'word salad'?

[Alteredbhoy]

58 minutes ago, rowlf said:

You latched on to this and are now using it. I never said this medical condition is 'silly'. It's the steps that we take to 'resolve' this that are silly. 

Now you are seeking to deny what you said. I suppose at least that is an implied admission that what you said was wrong.

What you said was to ask who put these "silly ideas" into the heads of children.

And anyway, what difference does it make? If you now claim that gender dysphoria is not a "silly idea", how can treating it become "silly idea" instead?

People with untreated gender dysphoria go on to develop serious mental.illnesses, which can lead to their taking their own lives. How can trying to prevent that be a "silly idea" as you now claim you meant?

[rowlf]

Just now, Alteredbhoy said:

Now you are seeking to deny what you said. I suppose at least that is an implied admission that what you said was wrong.

What you said was to ask who put these "silly ideas" into the heads of children.

And anyway, what difference does it make? If you now claim that gender dysphoria is not a "silly idea", how can treating it become "silly idea" instead?

People with untreated gender dysphoria go on to develop serious mental.illnesses, which can lead to their taking their own lives. How can trying to prevent that be a "silly idea" as you now claim you meant?

I imagine you must have been one of those children.

[Alteredbhoy]

1 minute ago, rowlf said:

I imagine you must have been one of those children.

An attempt to respond using flippancy and personal abuse.

Proof of it was needed that rowlf doesn't have a valid response.

[rowlf]

9 minutes ago, Alteredbhoy said:

An attempt to respond using flippancy and personal abuse.

Proof of it was needed that rowlf doesn't have a valid response.

I care more about those people than do you. I have no bias toward these children. Unlike you, I have no reason to listen to the 'talking heads'. I've seen what welfare does to people. You're a good example.

It's all political. If Trump would have initiated this topic, you would have run for shelter and started hurling the insults. You're owned by the liberal party and you have no place else you can go.... no matter what they say and do!

How is this response?

[Alteredbhoy]

34 minutes ago, rowlf said:

I care more about those people than do you. I have no bias toward these children. Unlike you, I have no reason to listen to the 'talking heads'. I've seen what welfare does to people. You're a good example.

It's all political. If Trump would have initiated this topic, you would have run for shelter and started hurling the insults. You're owned by the liberal party and you have no place else you can go.... no matter what they say and do!

How is this response?

It's another of your non responses.

Anyone who disagrees with you has been hoodwinked by a mysterious talking head. It's all a conspiracy that only you can see. And you can only see it because wearing your tin foil hat prevents the Giant Head from talking to you.

You talk about children being taught about feelings. But all your responses are devoid of facts and just a litany of your paranoical instincts and feelings.

You are stupid.

Edited September 3 by Alteredbhoy

[rowlf]

18 minutes ago, Alteredbhoy said:

It's another of your non responses.

Anyone who disagrees with you has been hoodwinked by a mysterious talking head. It's all a conspiracy that only you can see. And you can only see it because wearing your tin foil hat prevents the Giant Head from talking to you.

You talk about children being taught about feelings. But all your responses are devoid of facts and just a litany of your paranoical instincts and feelings.

You are stupid.

I'm stupid, huh? Just think about this. You are the one, granted among many that continues to listen... to a certain icon. (look it up) Without one f'ing exception. There has always been a certain bias in the media, mostly reporting from a liberal perspective. And I'll say this again. We've dumbed down our society so they are unable to separate the wheat from the chaff. And there was/is a method to this madness. As we can currently see the results of this. Everything you don't agree with is filtered. You've learned that disagreement will cause you to be ostracized.

You never have openly opined on your thoughts. For fear of being called out on it. That's a helluva way to live.

What facts do you ask of me? The number of 'facts' you ask of me would amount to the contents of a book. And you still wouldn't examine it. You're not allowed to.

So, you don't believe what I say, and you can't believe what you say.

Currently we're at an impasse and this is exactly what is needed. We're easier to manipulate and overcome when we're divided.

You don't realize this, but you're more my friend than you are my enemy.

 

[Alteredbhoy]

1 hour ago, rowlf said:

And I'll say this again. We've dumbed down our society so they are unable to separate the wheat from the chaff.

This from the man who reported on these forums because he had heard it somewhere that he thought Barack Obama had been involved in the murder of his chef.

This from the man who reported on these forums because he had heard it somewhere that Paul Pelosi had hired a male sex worker and then kidnapped him.

This from the man who has reported on this forum because he has heard it somewhere that Canada has laws banning the misuse of pronouns.

This from the man who has reported it on these forums because he heard it somewhere that the USA is not a democracy.

This from the man who reported it on these forums because he read it somewhere that Joe Biden had sexually molested his daughter.

This from the man who seems unable to distinguish between truth and pretty obvious fiction and lies.

Edited September 3 by Alteredbhoy

[rowlf]

42 minutes ago, Alteredbhoy said:

This from the man who reported on these forums because he had heard it somewhere that he thought Barack Obama had been involved in the murder of his chef.

This is very possible, but I have no proof.... yet.

This from the man who reported on these forums because he had heard it somewhere that Paul Pelosi had hired a male sex worker and then kidnapped him.

It is well known that Pelosi enjoys the gentleman. Look at his wife.

This from the man who has reported on this forum because he has heard it somewhere that Canada has laws banning the misuse of pronouns.

It's true. You just can't understand what you're reading.

This from the man who has reported it on these forums because he heard it somewhere that the USA is not a democracy.

You lie like a dawg. Screw you and the whore you rode in on.

This from the man who reported it on these forums because he read it somewhere that Joe Biden had sexually molested his daughter.

I don't think I said that, but she said that they took showers together.

This from the man who seems unable to distinguish between truth and pretty obvious fiction and lies.

This is a problem for us. There are your 'facts'......  and reality.

 

[c_cubed51]

On 03/09/2023 at 07:39, rowlf said:

I don't care about your data. Transwomen should keep out of cis women's restrooms. Trans women should not fight cis women. These demands made by you have no idea who they are, but you choose to believe them. I'll say again, that is a dangerous thing. However, you go along with it as they're no alternatives that you are allowed to believe within your group. You must believe, or you're 'disinvited.

Would you go along with Trump if he believed in child mutations? I think not. But if the powers that bring it up, it's a different story. You are owned you don't mind one bit. That check will keep on coming. And you are hesitant to meander through unknown avenues. That thought is hateful for you.

You appear to be raving, rowlf. This makes no sense. You are the one demanding that transwomen should keep out of cis women's restrooms, not me. You are the one claiming that trans women should not fight cis women, not me.

On the issue of child mutilations ... you choose to ignore the Gun Violence Archive verified details of 207 children under the age of 12 who have already been killed by gun shots this year, not just mutilated, and a further 477 such children who have been mutilated by gun shots. Also, a further 1,005 kids under the age of 18 who have been killed by gunshots so far, not just mutilated, and 2,808 such kids who have been mutilated by gun shots. That's a total of 4,497 child mutilations by gun violence in the USA and counting. Where was the parental consent for any of those?

Do you feel any compassion for the real lives behind these figures? Not just the victims, but all those who mourn their passing or life changing situations? Their lives are forever changed, and not for the better, unlike almost all people who have undergone GRS.

DJT doesn't care about the issue, one way or another. He is self-serving and you have yet to realise this.

Your post is nonsensical.

[rowlf]

23 minutes ago, c_cubed51 said:

You appear to be raving, rowlf. This makes no sense. You are the one demanding that transwomen should keep out of cis women's restrooms, not me. You are the one claiming that trans women should not fight cis women, not me.

On the issue of child mutilations ... you choose to ignore the Gun Violence Archive verified details of 207 children under the age of 12 who have already been killed by gun shots this year, not just mutilated, and a further 477 such children who have been mutilated by gun shots. Also, a further 1,005 kids under the age of 18 who have been killed by gunshots so far, not just mutilated, and 2,808 such kids who have been mutilated by gun shots. That's a total of 4,497 child mutilations by gun violence in the USA and counting. Where was the parental consent for any of those?

Do you feel any compassion for the real lives behind these figures? Not just the victims, but all those who mourn their passing or life changing situations? Their lives are forever changed, and not for the better, unlike almost all people who have undergone GRS.

DJT doesn't care about the issue, one way or another. He is self-serving and you have yet to realise this.

Your post is nonsensical.

Well, it must be catching.

[Sarah_Connor]

12 hours ago, Ursula Harrison said:

I presume it refers to rushing kids to transition. By the way, puberty blockers are not as harmless as you seem to think.

Your point about FGM is very well made. The trouble is some people are afraid to tackle it in case they get accused of RAY-cism. Not everybody is as brave as you.

Be seeing you!

Rushing kids into transition: OK, and by your response, and Rowlf's unwillingness to elucidate you don't mean surgery. So what exactly is the mutilation?

From Perplexity ai. Quite a useful ai bot when you want research related answers.
"Puberty blockers are prescription medications used to temporarily suppress puberty in transgender and gender-diverse youth2. They work by blocking the sex hormones testosterone and estrogen, which delay changes that can affect gender expression1. Puberty blockers are generally considered safe, and most experts, including the Endocrine Society and the World Professional Association for Transgender Health, support their use for kids who want to delay or prevent unwanted physical changes1. However, puberty blockers have some side effects, such as hot flashes, fatigue, and mood changes1. While puberty blockers have been scrutinized by some due to their use in caring for transgender children, these drugs have been in use since the 1980s and are overwhelmingly safe if used appropriately5. There is emerging evidence of potential harm from using blockers, according to reviews of scientific papers and interviews with more than 50 doctors and academic experts around the world6. However, the evidence is still inconclusive, and more research is needed to determine the long-term effects of puberty blockers3."

Female circumcision (as well as male) is a barbaric practice and is mutilation. Rowlf wouldn't dare take a position on that lest he upset the religious fundamentalists that he Kowtows to. But hell, giving puberty blockers to young people: MUTILATION! 

 

 

[Ursula Harrison]

22 hours ago, Sarah_Connor said:

But hell, giving puberty blockers to young people: MUTILATION! 

Now Penelope, while your answer was for the most part reasonable and well researched, in your haste to get your point across you missed something.

22 hours ago, Sarah_Connor said:

OK, and by your response, and Rowlf's unwillingness to elucidate you don't mean surgery.

Of course although I assumed Rowlf to be referring to surgery I cannot really speak for him. But I did mean surgery. I then said:

On 03/09/2023 at 10:47, Ursula Harrison said:

By the way, puberty blockers are not as harmless as you seem to think.

meaning that puberty blockers were yet another issue to consider.

The article you quote mentions side effects. Trouble is they're not always as minor as hot flushes. They weaken bone density and can lead to osteoporosis for example.

Your quote quite rightly points out that they need to be used appropriately. That's where things get complicated as "appropriate" is a subjective judgement.

At Tavistock I think we can agree they were not always used appropriately although we may disagree on the reasons for that. Anyway because historically of the kids who presented themselves to GIDS as trans only two percent went onto transition, when numbers the numbers started rising exponentially and putting a huge strain on the service, puberty blockers started being prescribed en-masse. The thinking behind this being that it would delay changes and give the kids time to think it over and decide if that was what they really wanted.

But it was then discovered that virtually all the kids prescribed them decided that they wanted to progress to sex change hormones and onto transition. Hormones are not reversible. So that's a leap of almost 98% - something that cannot be coincidence. So it would appear that the puberty blockers have some psychological effect and seem to "persuade" them to transition. (Does "Aunt" Kelly mention that in her podcast?)

One irony of this for MTF patients is that puberty blockers stop the development of tissue around the penis. This is the tissue that is used in transition surgery to create a vagina. If not available due to the effects of puberty blockers, bowel tissue has to be used. This is a far riskier procedure and can result in some rather nasty outcomes. Such as an "unwanted smell" for instance. That's a polite way of saying that the patient ends up permanently stinking of shit.

So just to clarify my position, I don't think kids should be rushed to transition. Unfortunately some have, such as Chloe Cole for example and what was done to her amounts to mutilation.

Puberty blockers can have their uses but the issue is not straightforward.

You must have been gutted when Ayaan Hirsi Ali was forced to cancel her event in Auckland due to threats from extremists. I hope you got a refund on your ticket!

[c_cubed51]

Hi Ursula. I do love it when an intelligent response on a thread causes me to think and do a little research. So, thanks!

To begin with, I had not heard of Chloe Cole. Turns out she is a former FtM person who opted to transition at the age of 12, and then to detransition at the age of 17. She has had a double mastectomy, which, I suppose, is the female equivalent of the loss of tissue around the male penis, which you mention as a side effect of talking puberty blockers. On her Wikipedia page, she blames social media for her decision to transition. This accords with the only sensible comment I could find on the Matt Walsh video I have previously mentioned, namely that it is the rise of social media which is the root cause of the escalation in our understanding (and misunderstanding) of trans issues, and of the rise in the number of people choosing to transition. I think your blaming of puberty blockers is an interesting claim, which could lead to an important Ph.D thesis or something similar. Oh, that I was only 30 years old!!!

Four things are clear; she wanted to transition; her parents gave their consent to the transition process and the use of a puberty blocker, and the injections of testosterone, and the surgery; a year after the surgery, she suddenly realised that she would not be able to breastfeed any baby; she does not blame her parents for their actions.

Perhaps you are correct in stating that young people are too ignorant to think things through properly. Certainly, it seems Chloe’s parents, being presumably older and wiser, should have counselled her better. But she does not blame them, so perhaps they did say something which she, in her eagerness to transition, did not take on board. Who knows?

 

When I Googled Chloe, the next site which came up was this one:

How a Few Stories of Regret Fuel the Push to Restrict Gender Transition Care - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

AB, SC and I go on and on about the way in which your world view focusses on the few people who regret having transitioned, whilst ignoring the vast majority of people who have successfully transitioned, who end up happier and more ‘whole’. This is the nub of our debate.

Here is a quote from the NYTimes article:

“Most people who transition do not change course. And yet, the influence of these activists has been striking.

Their stories of regret and irreversible physical transformation have tapped into strong emotions about rapidly shifting gender norms — from hardened prejudice to parental worry. Lawmakers have used these accounts to override objections from all major medical associations, which oppose bans on transition care, as well as testimony from the far larger number of transgender people who say transitioning improved their mental health.

“They don’t really care,” said Chelsea Freels, 17, a transgender high school student in Missouri who testified at legislative hearings there to oppose bills that Ms. Cole supported. Ms. Freels says hormone therapy has helped her thrive. She is more comfortable socially and deeply involved on the robotics team. But she says Republican lawmakers look away when she tells them this story.”

 

So, Ursula, it seems you lean right, despite being trans yourself (Oh, I know that you deny it, but hey, who loves dressing up and going out, and to flaunt herself in lingerie on this site?). I lean left. I care about all my students, not only about the few who make bad choices. I acknowledge the truth of what you say, but urge you to acknowledge our truth, and that lawmakers and society in general should be acting in the interests of the greater good, and not the vested interests of a very, very few.

Republicans do not care about all Americans. They push an agenda of fear and inflate the stories of a few activists to scare the hell out of people like you, rowlf and LSL.

 

Likewise, I had not heard of Ayaan Hirsi Ali. Turns out she cancelled a visit to Auckland back in 2017, when I was in the UK. Cited security concerns. Seems sensible, given what befell Parker Posie recently.

 

Ayaan Hirsi Ali cancels tour of NZ citing security concerns | Stuff.co.nz

 

 

[Ursula Harrison]

1 hour ago, c_cubed51 said:

She has had a double mastectomy, which, I suppose, is the female equivalent of the loss of tissue around the male penis, which you mention as a side effect of talking puberty blockers.

It is nothing of the sort. How is the removal of something surgically a side effect? That's like saying losing your legs is a side effect of amputation.

1 hour ago, c_cubed51 said:

she does not blame her parents for their actions.

Her parents opposed her at first and only changed their minds after being bombarded with trans propaganda (her word, not mine) by the medical professionals in charge of her transition. That's probably why she does not blame them.

1 hour ago, c_cubed51 said:

Perhaps you are correct in stating that young people are too ignorant to think things through properly. Certainly, it seems Chloe’s parents, being presumably older and wiser, should have counselled her better. But she does not blame them, so perhaps they did say something which she, in her eagerness to transition, did not take on board. Who knows?

She knows and says so. Let me get this straight. A 15 year old cannot get a tattoo, alcohol, or nicotine yet they can decide to get their genitalia removed. You see nothing amiss here?

1 hour ago, c_cubed51 said:

When I Googled Chloe, the next site which came up was this one:

How a Few Stories of Regret Fuel the Push to Restrict Gender Transition Care - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

Oh yeah? Well I came up with a few sites of my own where I could listen to Miss Cole's story in her own words. Much as I hate to upset my dear friend Penelope by referencing YouTube again there are times when it just has to be done.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtItMuCW0vI

1 hour ago, c_cubed51 said:

So, Ursula, it seems you lean right

Right wing and left wing are relative terms meaning right or left of centre. But the centre can move.

Up until fairly recently I considered myself on the left. I honestly cannot think of a major issue on which my opinion has changed over the last 30-40 years. It's just that now the threat is coming from a different direction. In my youth the people who wanted to suppress free speech were conservatives like Mary Whitehouse and they did not succeed.

Now the thought police read the Guardian and the New York Times and have managed to get their objectives onto the statute books.

1 hour ago, c_cubed51 said:

Oh, I know that you deny it, but hey, who loves dressing up and going out, and to flaunt herself in lingerie on this site?

I am a transvestite. I have never denied that and as you say I have offered photographic evidence to prove it many times on this site. It's not a matter of me denying anything it's just that again the ground has shifted and I'm not always sure of where I stand.

The new buzz word is transgender. The organisers of Sparkle, for example, tell me I belong in that category but my dear friend Penelope tells me that I do not. I wouldn't mind so much if dishonest people like you didn't misrepresent me so they could accuse me of being anti-trans.

1 hour ago, c_cubed51 said:

I had not heard of Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

I'll bet you hadn't! People like her (and Chloe Cole) don't get much of a hearing in the media outlets you turn to for your information. They label her "controversial" and "far right" for speaking out against FGM and the like. Then with a perfectly straight face they'll claim to be supporters of women's rights.

1 hour ago, c_cubed51 said:

Cited security concerns. Seems sensible, given what befell Parker Posie recently.

I think she might be more concerned about what happened to her friend Theo van Gogh. But I daresay you haven't heard of him either.

[c_cubed51]

The difference between you and I is that I am prepared to acknowledge that what you say may be true, and it seems sensible to do further research. You, on the other hand, are completely inflexible!

Mary Whitehouse was going on about porn, wasn't she? Most would agree that the internet has made children's access to porn much easier these days, and that this is NOT a good thing.

You, on the other hand, feel that you have the right to utter hateful things, and support those who attack members of the trans community. Freedom of speech does not include the right to inflict any kind of pain on another.

"The trans community does not speak for me." That was on your page on cd.com and it shows clearly are unable to support those who have fought and suffered for the freedom you take for granted. Your attitude baffles me. The stats speak for themselves, yet you deliberately refuse to even consider the possibility that your heroes are in the minority and do not speak the vast majority of trans people who have successfully and happily transitioned.

Americans claim they have the freedom to do things like say and act as they like. Bitons claim that they have the freedom to live lives free from the fear of nutjobs who go about spreading hatred and fear.

Think, man !!!

[rowlf]

2 hours ago, c_cubed51 said:

The difference between you and I is that I am prepared to acknowledge that what you say may be true, and it seems sensible to do further research. You, on the other hand, are completely inflexible!

Mary Whitehouse was going on about porn, wasn't she? Most would agree that the internet has made children's access to porn much easier these days, and that this is NOT a good thing.

You, on the other hand, feel that you have the right to utter hateful things, and support those who attack members of the trans community. Freedom of speech does not include the right to inflict any kind of pain on another.

"The trans community does not speak for me." That was on your page on cd.com and it shows clearly are unable to support those who have fought and suffered for the freedom you take for granted. Your attitude baffles me. The stats speak for themselves, yet you deliberately refuse to even consider the possibility that your heroes are in the minority and do not speak the vast majority of trans people who have successfully and happily transitioned.

Americans claim they have the freedom to do things like say and act as they like. Bitons claim that they have the freedom to live lives free from the fear of nutjobs who go about spreading hatred and fear.

Think, man !!!

But what makes you so right all the time? In your last 2 posts you make many grandiose statements that are wrong if not nonsensical. You pick and choose your stats to suit your purpose.

It's not just you, it's many people like you that have been brought up as you have. It's as though you've never been 'tested'. I don't know. Maybe it's because you have never been behind the 8 ball.

It seems as though you're afraid to consider important things such as security and a thriving economy, yet desire to concentrate on these other issues. Don't get me wrong these kids need counseling. But nothing as radical as what you and your ilk suggest.

We did a number on our kids, and I don't know how old you are, but it seems as though they messed with your mind as well.

Life isn't as clear cut and as black and white as you portray it.

If you don't have the strength to persevere these trying times, how do you expect to help others?

You can't always get what you want, but you can get what you need.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ef9QnZVpVd8

 

[Alteredbhoy]

3 hours ago, rowlf said:

Don't get me wrong these kids need counseling. But nothing as radical as what you and your ilk suggest.

Please provide evidence of your medical qualifications that make you competent to make such an assessment. The decision that a person with gender dysphoria requires more than just counselling rests with the person, their doctors and dependent upon their age their guardians.

I have never recommended any medical treatment to a person with gender dysphoria, because I am not qualified to do so.

Please stop trying to tar me with your ignorance. I would advise anyone who needs medical advice to seek it from a suitably qualified practitioner and to ignore any advice from narrow minded and ignorant right wing transphobes who seek to deny the very existence of the medical condition.

[rowlf]

4 hours ago, Alteredbhoy said:

Please provide evidence of your medical qualifications that make you competent to make such an assessment. The decision that a person with gender dysphoria requires more than just counselling rests with the person, their doctors and dependent upon their age their guardians.

I have never recommended any medical treatment to a person with gender dysphoria, because I am not qualified to do so.

Please stop trying to tar me with your ignorance. I would advise anyone who needs medical advice to seek it from a suitably qualified practitioner and to ignore any advice from narrow minded and ignorant right wing transphobes who seek to deny the very existence of the medical condition.

There's a lot of stuff that you no know nothing about, yet still opine on the subject. You say to leave it up to the professionals. Leave what up to the professionals? Please specify how far the medical treatment should go...IYO?

You always seem to say what you wouldn't do rather than what you would do.

The terrible thing about this current world we live in, is that there are no one we can trust out there that we can depend on to make the right decision. The so-called professionals are products of our so-called education system.

Leave the children alone until they are able to make their own decisions. Granted, maturity comes at a much older age nowadays.

You 'tar' yourself with ignorance by name calling. Using that in lieu of having an answer.

 

[dappi]

2 minutes ago, rowlf said:

There's a lot of stuff that you no know nothing about, yet still opine on the subject. You say to leave it up to the professionals. Leave what up to the professionals? Please specify how far the medical treatment should go...IYO?

You always seem to say what you wouldn't do rather than what you would do.

The terrible thing about this current world we live in, is that there are no one we can trust out there that we can depend on to make the right decision. The so-called professionals are products of our so-called education system.

You are obviously not a product of any education system.

Leave the children alone until they are able to make their own decisions. Granted, maturity comes at a much older age nowadays.

You 'tar' yourself with ignorance by name calling. Using that in lieu of having an answer.

This from the champion name caller on this entire site.

You continue to avoid declaring your qualifications to expound on this subject.

So far it is just your muddled and meaningless opinion. 

 

 

[Alteredbhoy]

2 hours ago, rowlf said:

There's a lot of stuff that you no know nothing about, yet still opine on the subject. You say to leave it up to the professionals. Leave what up to the professionals? Please specify how far the medical treatment should go...IYO?

You always seem to say what you wouldn't do rather than what you would do.

The terrible thing about this current world we live in, is that there are no one we can trust out there that we can depend on to make the right decision. The so-called professionals are products of our so-called education system.

Leave the children alone until they are able to make their own decisions. Granted, maturity comes at a much older age nowadays.

You 'tar' yourself with ignorance by name calling. Using that in lieu of having an answer.

 

So you are offering a medical opinion upon the treatment of gender dysphoria, despite not being qualified to offer such an opinion and despite having no experience to give your opinion any credence?

You are just full of ignorant and dangerous bs.

There are consequences to untreated gender dysphoria. You do not appear to have considered them. But then you are unqualified and so that is not really a surprise.

There are plenty of unpleasant words in the English language to describe unqualified people with no experience who tell the experts in a field that they know better. 

Edited September 5 by Alteredbhoy

[rowlf]

15 minutes ago, Alteredbhoy said:

So you are offering a medical opinion upon the treatment of gender dysphoria, despite not being qualified to offer such an opinion and despite having no experience to give your opinion any credence?

You are just full of ignorant and dangerous bs.

There are consequences to untreated gender dysphoria. You do not appear to have considered them. But then you are unqualified and so that is not really a surprise.

There are plenty of unpleasant words in the English language to describe unqualified people with no experience who tell the experts in a field that they know better. 

Once again, you say nothing. Yet you get the key words across. But I think 'dangerous' is a new word for you. Did you look that up in your Funk & Wagnalls? Or from some members post?