suspenderslover

Presidents Club behviour

282 posts in this topic

As a single poor male, I demand the right to be groped, touched up etc by females and paid 200 pnds for the indignity. I represent a significant percentage of human beings who since the 1970s have been pilloried for being a male. Which sex one is a matter of chance yet one bears the sins for being a sex.

The men's movement needs a leader....

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While I do not condone the crass and vulgar behaviour that is alleged to have happened there are many questions that need to be answered. The Times journalist is a noted feminist with her own agenda it is in her interest to use emotive an inflammatory language. Was there a lot of bad behaviour or just a minority of drunken boors. These 130 ladies were hostesses recruited specifically as eye candy to circulate and flatter the egos of rich old farts. The waitresses had left after the meal was finished. The hostesses knew what they were letting themselves in for when they had to sign a non disclosure agreement when they were recruited some time in advance of the event. The requirement to wear skimpy black dresses and black underwear underlined the fact that they should expect flirting and possible propositioning that is why they were paid far in excess of what the waitresses were paid. It is probable that some of the ladies that attended the after event party would be of negotiable virtue and come to their own arrangements with foolish men with money to burn. Touching and groping seriously out of order but the Times never lets the truth get in the way of a good story. Have any of the ladies made formal complaints ?

John B.

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On 1/25/2018 at 9:15 AM, suspenderslover said:

As a single poor male, I demand the right to be groped, touched up etc by females and paid 200 pnds for the indignity. I represent a significant percentage of human beings who since the 1970s have been pilloried for being a male. Which sex one is a matter of chance yet one bears the sins for being a sex.

The men's movement needs a leader....

I think with a bit of effort I could put you in a room full of big burly rugby playing men and I'll happily pay you 200 pound to get groped, touched, verbally humiliated and sexually harassed by them. 

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22 minutes ago, bratman said:

While I do not condone the crass and vulgar behaviour that is alleged to have happened there are many questions that need to be answered. The Times journalist is a noted feminist with her own agenda it is in her interest to use emotive an inflammatory language. Was there a lot of bad behaviour or just a minority of drunken boors. These 130 ladies were hostesses recruited specifically as eye candy to circulate and flatter the egos of rich old farts. The waitresses had left after the meal was finished. The hostesses knew what they were letting themselves in for when they had to sign a non disclosure agreement when they were recruited some time in advance of the event. The requirement to wear skimpy black dresses and black underwear underlined the fact that they should expect flirting and possible propositioning that is why they were paid far in excess of what the waitresses were paid. It is probable that some of the ladies that attended the after event party would be of negotiable virtue and come to their own arrangements with foolish men with money to burn. Touching and groping seriously out of order but the Times never lets the truth get in the way of a good story. Have any of the ladies made formal complaints ?

John B.

Eye candy doesn't equal hand candy John. Skimpy dresses doesn't equal  a come on. I doubt very much that in their non disclosure agreement it said that the hostesses would be sexually harassed and assaulted.  But don't let the fact that a feminist wrote an article put you off making a judgement about it's veracity.

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Trinity you have my full agreement the whole event is distasteful. I would like to see some balance though, as yet no formal complaints have been made by any of the ladies so the scale of the inappropriate behaviour is not known. As for the journalist I have no problem with her espousing the cause of feminism. My point is that it is in her interest to paint the worst picture as that sells papers. It is pathetic that so many white knight politicians of all political shades are jumping on the bandwagon with loud protestations of moral outrage whilst trying to score political points over the opposition.

As an aside Trinity I was once asked by a friend to help out with glass collecting at the rugby club. Bill was the steward and they were having a "ladies" night. I felt really sorry for the three male strippers, as the wine flowed the women couldn't keep their hands off them. One of the women performed oral sex on the most endowed stripper and refused to stop. I've never seen a man more scared in my life. What's sauce for the goose I suppose.

John B.

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8 hours ago, chads680 said:

Here's my question...why wait 40years to bring it up?

Maybe circumstances have changed such that people can now bring stuff forward.   Maybe coppers actually listen now days.  Maybe the groundswell has become a wave.  Some people better watch out, their past may come back to drown them.

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5 hours ago, bratman said:

Trinity you have my full agreement the whole event is distasteful. I would like to see some balance though, as yet no formal complaints have been made by any of the ladies so the scale of the inappropriate behaviour is not known. As for the journalist I have no problem with her espousing the cause of feminism. My point is that it is in her interest to paint the worst picture as that sells papers. It is pathetic that so many white knight politicians of all political shades are jumping on the bandwagon with loud protestations of moral outrage whilst trying to score political points over the opposition.

As an aside Trinity I was once asked by a friend to help out with glass collecting at the rugby club. Bill was the steward and they were having a "ladies" night. I felt really sorry for the three male strippers, as the wine flowed the women couldn't keep their hands off them. One of the women performed oral sex on the most endowed stripper and refused to stop. I've never seen a man more scared in my life. What's sauce for the goose I suppose.

John B.

Why bring up that she is a feminist? Is that a bad thing?  I don't understand your final point. I could equally provide you with a tale of a female accomplice to a serial killer. The fact still remains that 99.99 % of serial killers are male.   Same goes for cases of sexual misconduct, harassment and abuse. It's a male problem. You're example  hardly provides balance to the discussion.

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2 minutes ago, Trinity said:

Why bring up that she is a feminist? Is that a bad thing?  I don't understand your final point. I could equally provide you with a tale of a female accomplice to a serial killer. The fact still remains that 99.99 % of serial killers are male.   Same goes for cases of sexual misconduct, harassment and abuse. It's a male problem. You're example  hardly provides balance to the discussion.

I think what the gentleman is trying to point out, Trinity, is that these hostesses were fully aware of what to expect at this function and all though I don't condone the behaviour of the members, these ladies went there with their eyes wide open and no doubt hoping to make a few quid from tips etc.

I also don't think that Bratman was belabouring the point that the reporter is a feminist, but I have no doubt that she would jump at the chance to black any male, the fact that these males were all big names would have her drooling at the mouth.

The other point that Bratman made, and which you have studiously avoided mentioning was the case of the 'All ladies night'. Perhaps these events haven't reached the shores of NZ yet but I can assure you they are a weekly event all over the UK, and if you think that men are the disgusting and perverted gender then I would suggest you attend one of these functions and really have your eyes opened.

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15 minutes ago, radio said:

I think what the gentleman is trying to point out, Trinity, is that these hostesses were fully aware of what to expect at this function and all though I don't condone the behaviour of the members, these ladies went there with their eyes wide open and no doubt hoping to make a few quid from tips etc.

I also don't think that Bratman was belabouring the point that the reporter is a feminist, but I have no doubt that she would jump at the chance to black any male, the fact that these males were all big names would have her drooling at the mouth.

The other point that Bratman made, and which you have studiously avoided mentioning was the case of the 'All ladies night'. Perhaps these events haven't reached the shores of NZ yet but I can assure you they are a weekly event all over the UK, and if you think that men are the disgusting and perverted gender then I would suggest you attend one of these functions and really have your eyes opened.

You’re obviously very well versed on the subject.... :58674d5a21ae6_EmojiObjects-216:

Edited by stockingsadmirer68

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12 minutes ago, radio said:

I think what the gentleman is trying to point out, Trinity, is that these hostesses were fully aware of what to expect at this function and all though I don't condone the behaviour of the members, these ladies went there with their eyes wide open and no doubt hoping to make a few quid from tips etc.

I also don't think that Bratman was belabouring the point that the reporter is a feminist, but I have no doubt that she would jump at the chance to black any male, the fact that these males were all big names would have her drooling at the mouth.

The other point that Bratman made, and which you have studiously avoided mentioning was the case of the 'All ladies night'. Perhaps these events haven't reached the shores of NZ yet but I can assure you they are a weekly event all over the UK, and if you think that men are the disgusting and perverted gender then I would suggest you attend one of these functions and really have your eyes opened.

I think it's rather clear that the ladies didn't quite know what to expect. I think they expected not to be harassed, molested, groped or abused.

I fail to see why the issue of the woman reporter being a feminist was raised. The only reason I can see that it was raised was to try to belabor a very tired point that many triggered men use when confronted by the appalling behaviour of other men is that somehow it was a feminist that was stirring up trouble. If she jumps at the chance to black some appalling male scumbag, good on her. After all these types have blacked women for years.

I think I answered Bratmans point, as weak as it was, about ladies nights.  We could have another 6 billion ladies nights and it would still fall short of balancing the ledger of abuse , sexism, molestation and harasment that women have suffered.

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57 minutes ago, Trinity said:

I think it's rather clear that the ladies didn't quite know what to expect. I think they expected not to be harassed, molested, groped or abused.

 

 

These ladies were told/asked to wear short, black, tight dresses and black underwear. If that didn't tell them what to expect then I don't know what could be said to make it quite clear what to kind of evening it was going to be.

Like all free people, these ladies were quite entitled to refuse the work. Nobody was forcing them to do it, and as I said previously, ALL of them would see it as money easily earned.

The other points I made I will stick with as I think Bratman made a good argument. You have disagreed which is your choice but you are not taking all points into consideration before you post. IMHO

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1 hour ago, radio said:

These ladies were told/asked to wear short, black, tight dresses and black underwear. If that didn't tell them what to expect then I don't know what could be said to make it quite clear what to kind of evening it was going to be.

Like all free people, these ladies were quite entitled to refuse the work. Nobody was forcing them to do it, and as I said previously, ALL of them would see it as money easily earned.

The other points I made I will stick with as I think Bratman made a good argument. You have disagreed which is your choice but you are not taking all points into consideration before you post. IMHO

Fully agree with radio...I have heard lots of different stories about hen nights and male strippers getting groped and more...nobody stands up and says anything about that. The strippers know what to expect and to a certain extent so did these women after being given the brief of what to wear etc. If hen nights can get away with groping males why all the fuss about the opposite happening...let's face it this sort of behaviour has gone on for years behind closed doors at various "fund raising events" and it is strange how suddenly it is made public. Have the other events organised by the Presidents Club been the same and if so why have they not raised the same issue? The other side to this is that the charity (St. Ormond St.) has given back the two million raised on moral grounds...does that mean they have enough money and don't need the two million? Before I am shot down in flames by certain people this is only my opinion based on the facts known to me at the time of writing.

Edited by Lord Seaton

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Question is why are most feminists not hot they all look like women wanting to be men! 

Feminism is a passing fad created by rich bored shrill middle class housewives with to much spare time.

The men that agree with them are politically correct chaps who are weak the sort that get sand kicked in their faces on the beach.

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4 minutes ago, Hornytrucker said:

Question is why are most feminists not hot they all look like women wanting to be men! 

Feminism is a passing fad created by rich bored shrill middle class housewives with to much spare time.

The men that agree with them are politically correct chaps who are weak the sort that get sand kicked in their faces on the beach.

You do have a point...especially the first sentence. Can't ever remember seeing an attractive feminist!

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Wholeheartedly agrre that NO one should suffer the way the women did at the Club or anywhere else for that matter However as ive posted before, society relies so much now on social media,email,texts skype etc that we have lost the art of actually communicating/interacting with each other face to face. We have no etiquette,manners or sense of social interaction. The world has gone so PC mad, nobody knows whjat to say or how to act that wont offend someone, somewhere.

students at the university where I work often email and text senior academic staff (male and female) like they are texting their lovers!!  emojis, inappropriate words/ phrases and even kisses at the end of the email/text. They dont know any different because that is their world that is how they act every hour of every day.I work in an environment where there are more women than men technicians and they are by far the worst when it comes to inuendo and tearoom sex talk. I would never consider touching the leg of a female colleague but is it wrong now to have a bit of banter about how good her legs look in those tights, or for her to comment on how good my hospital scrubs look from the front!!

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It seems to me that life was far easier/better before all this PC bollocks...people just got on with life and if someone said/did something they did not like they would let them know in no uncertain terms..now they run screaming cries of wanting them pilloried or similar...health and safety is another one gone mad...it used to be called common dense.

Edited by Lord Seaton

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The bitter irony at the centre of Presidents Club thing is that those  suggesting wholly innocent women were "asking for it" for wearing revealing outfits are the self-same people who usually object to burqas and niqabs and say women should wear whatever they like.

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25 minutes ago, WestMerciaHeels said:

The bitter irony at the centre of Presidents Club thing is that those  suggesting wholly innocent women were "asking for it" for wearing revealing outfits are the self-same people who usually object to burqas and niqabs and say women should wear whatever they like.

exactly

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1 hour ago, WestMerciaHeels said:

The bitter irony at the centre of Presidents Club thing is that those  suggesting wholly innocent women were "asking for it" for wearing revealing outfits are the self-same people who usually object to burqas and niqabs and say women should wear whatever they like.

Those women wearing a burka do not do it for themselves they don’t have a choice the men make them. Also there is nothing in the Islamic religion that states you have to wear it. Personally I think a lot in the U.K. wear it to stick 2 fingers up to us, they say we are here we are being looked after by your government and there’s nowt you can do about it 

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This is another sad story about men abusing their power and money to insult and abuse women “justified” by raising funds for a charity. Asking if the hostess were available for sex is plain wrong. Do these men have daughters? Would they want their daughters to be insulted in a similar way?

The Guardian’s view:  This was a testosterone-fuelled, dick-swinging (in one case at least) slimeball night out that depended on objectifying and in some cases abusing women to big up male entitlement and thus raise a great deal of money for charitable causes like children’s hospitals. At least two of the beneficiaries have now refused to accept the cash”

It really is time for us men to stand shoulder by shoulder with our sisters and fight this Stone Age attitude towards women. And for those men who thinks this is ok since the ladies received specific attire instructions and received payment, I would like to quote one of my all-time favorite musicians Ian Dury and his band the Blockheads:

It ain't cool

You thin it's cool to be the comic, making cracks at my expense
You think it's cool to sit in judgement when I ain't got no defense
You think it's witty being witty, when you know my tongue is tied
You think it's cool to be a prankster but your joks are passing ride

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7 hours ago, Hornytrucker said:

Question is why are most feminists not hot they all look like women wanting to be men! 

 

Of course, a women's worth amounts to little more than how she looks, right ?
 

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7 hours ago, Lord Seaton said:

It seems to me that life was far easier/better before all this PC bollocks...people just got on with life and if someone said/did something they did not like they would let them know in no uncertain terms..now they run screaming cries of wanting them pilloried or similar...health and safety is another one gone mad...it used to be called common dense.

Oh so equality is PC bollocks is it?

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7 hours ago, Tights66 said:

Wholeheartedly agrre that NO one should suffer the way the women did at the Club or anywhere else for that matter However as ive posted before, society relies so much now on social media,email,texts skype etc that we have lost the art of actually communicating/interacting with each other face to face. We have no etiquette,manners or sense of social interaction. The world has gone so PC mad, nobody knows whjat to say or how to act that wont offend someone, somewhere.

students at the university where I work often email and text senior academic staff (male and female) like they are texting their lovers!!  emojis, inappropriate words/ phrases and even kisses at the end of the email/text. They dont know any different because that is their world that is how they act every hour of every day.I work in an environment where there are more women than men technicians and they are by far the worst when it comes to inuendo and tearoom sex talk. I would never consider touching the leg of a female colleague but is it wrong now to have a bit of banter about how good her legs look in those tights, or for her to comment on how good my hospital scrubs look from the front!!

Would you tell The Rock how good his legs looked in pants?   Probably not.  So there's your PC issue answered. If it's inappropriate don't do it.

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7 hours ago, Lord Seaton said:

You do have a point...especially the first sentence. Can't ever remember seeing an attractive feminist!

Again, because a woman's worth is only measured by how attractive you find them, right ?

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9 hours ago, radio said:

These ladies were told/asked to wear short, black, tight dresses and black underwear. If that didn't tell them what to expect then I don't know what could be said to make it quite clear what to kind of evening it was going to be.

Like all free people, these ladies were quite entitled to refuse the work. Nobody was forcing them to do it, and as I said previously, ALL of them would see it as money easily earned.

The other points I made I will stick with as I think Bratman made a good argument. You have disagreed which is your choice but you are not taking all points into consideration before you post. IMHO

Airline stewards/stewardesses get told what to wear too. So do police. Nurses too. Many professions actually.  Models frequently do work for example at race tracks where they promote some brand (Pirelli, Red Bull etc) and have to wear an outfit.  None of these people expect to get groped, molested, abused etc but maybe they should I guess.

Bratman might have simply said.. "what reprehensible behaviour" and he would have made a great point.  However he then went on to engage in victim blaming and basically inferring that prostitutes (if indeed there were any there) should expect this sort of thing.   

He then went on to say that the mirror of equality, when thrust in his face, is rather ugly. How ironic.  It's not nice this sort of ugly behaviour is it? Men have been getting away with it for years.

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Maybe you can argue that women asked to dress scantily and sign a non-disclosure agreement shouldn't be surprised at the type of event it turns out to be.

But surely a bunch of sleazeballs hiring attractive young women to lech over at an event where alcohol is flowing and journalists are present shouldn't be surprised by bad publicity. I mean what could possibly go wrong?

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Don't be daft, Trinity, all these ladies you use as examples when you say they are told what to wear, were not acting as hostesses at a private all male function and I doubt if your ladies were told they must wear black underwear. I am also certain that Bratman never used or inferred that the hostesses were prostitutes, but would you still be shouting the odds if they were? These girls had a clear choice, if they didn't like the idea then they didn't do it but as there have been no complaints from these girls then they must have been in full agreement.

Your last sentence seems to be rather contradictory.

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1 hour ago, Trinity said:

Of course, a women's worth amounts to little more than how she looks, right ?
 

I won’t rise to your bait you stike me as one who howls victim all the time the guardian reading remoaner who hates trump but loves old terrorist loving jezza type.

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The question of why the " hostesses " never complained to the police if they felt so badly treated seems to be ignored

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5 hours ago, Hornytrucker said:

I won’t rise to your bait you stike me as one who howls victim all the time the guardian reading remoaner who hates trump but loves old terrorist loving jezza type.

You strike me as someone who needs to go sort out his grammar. 

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5 hours ago, adnex said:

The question of why the " hostesses " never complained to the police if they felt so badly treated seems to be ignored

Someone who fails to understand power dynamics.

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6 hours ago, radio said:

Don't be daft, Trinity, all these ladies you use as examples when you say they are told what to wear, were not acting as hostesses at a private all male function and I doubt if your ladies were told they must wear black underwear. I am also certain that Bratman never used or inferred that the hostesses were prostitutes, but would you still be shouting the odds if they were? These girls had a clear choice, if they didn't like the idea then they didn't do it but as there have been no complaints from these girls then they must have been in full agreement.

Your last sentence seems to be rather contradictory.

Well let's face it there is plenty of air hostess fixation on these forums ... with regard to sexual fantasy and provocation, therefore it's not an unreasonable argument to suggest that air stewardess ought to expect to be groped, right? Surely if you make the argument in regards to these hostesses it must also hold for air hostesses ? And police women??   I mean they are all in positions around groups of drunken men. Brahman specifically mentioned women of negotiable virtue. Because of course prostitutes are fair game for sexual harassment. 

Are you certain the "girls" (how misogynistic), had clear choices? Are you sure no complaints have been made? And lastly re read my point... it seems you don't like women sexually harassing men but seem to argue that it's ok for men to abuse women. Of course a short dress is always asking for it, ain't it?  

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So much p.c rubbish....phil Neville is being murdered for twitter commented made 6 years ago..6YEARS....who did he make the comments too... his wife and his sister..they both took the joke... the world has gone mad... did you listen to Liam Nelson on the Graham Norton show.... to think that Neville comments would never have come to light only he got the England ladies managers job..ltd so pathetic..the ladies at the presidents club had an idea what to expect..although it doesn't make it fight to grope... but get real and Marge has been to strippers nights and says some women are downright MAD... even the doormen are groped and  propositioned... and god help the strippers..honestly this PC stuff is just raised up for the sake of a news story.

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3 hours ago, billso and marge said:

So much p.c rubbish....phil Neville is being murdered for twitter commented made 6 years ago..6YEARS....who did he make the comments too... his wife and his sister..they both took the joke... the world has gone mad... did you listen to Liam Nelson on the Graham Norton show.... to think that Neville comments would never have come to light only he got the England ladies managers job..ltd so pathetic..the ladies at the presidents club had an idea what to expect..although it doesn't make it fight to grope... but get real and Marge has been to strippers nights and says some women are downright MAD... even the doormen are groped and  propositioned... and god help the strippers..honestly this PC stuff is just raised up for the sake of a news story.

So am I to understand , by your example of the ladies night, that you, and those above who have raised this, are saying that groping, harassing and abusing people is ok? 

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6 hours ago, Trinity said:

Someone who fails to understand power dynamics.

So you don't  to accept that there are women who are prepared to work at this type of function and accept what happens there........without complaint.

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Trinity has again taken it all out of proportion and meaning and tried to bring it round to her way of thinking by adding other issues...Trinity if you can't stick to what has been said and reply to same then don't reply or start another thread on that subject. This is not the first time you have done this and (unfortunately) I am sure it won't be the last.

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6 hours ago, Trinity said:

Well let's face it there is plenty of air hostess fixation on these forums ... with regard to sexual fantasy and provocation, therefore it's not an unreasonable argument to suggest that air stewardess ought to expect to be groped, right? Surely if you make the argument in regards to these hostesses it must also hold for air hostesses ? And police women??   I mean they are all in positions around groups of drunken men. Brahman specifically mentioned women of negotiable virtue. Because of course prostitutes are fair game for sexual harassment. 

Are you certain the "girls" (how misogynistic), had clear choices? Are you sure no complaints have been made? And lastly re read my point... it seems you don't like women sexually harassing men but seem to argue that it's ok for men to abuse women. Of course a short dress is always asking for it, ain't it?  

You are splitting hairs, Trinity, and I suspect you are doing it deliberately.

We, and I use that term, as against 'you', are not talking about air stewardesses, or policewomen (have you seen what policewomen wear these days?), we are speaking of a bunch of girls who were after making some lucrative pocket money by appearing at an all-male function. Did they think the men were going to stand around and sing five rousing choruses of 'Jerusalem'?

If you think that was the case then you have been living in shadow for most of your life. Of course these girls had a choice, I don't think they were dragged in off the street, some clothes thrown at them and told they would be given a fiver at the nights end - if they were 'good'. There have been no complaints simply because the bulge of notes in their handbags made up for a few, and it was a few, wandering hands.

You are also trying to provoke response by your silly remark that I think it's okay for men to abuse (your word) women but not the other way around and I'm not sure what a short dress has to do with the equation.

I'm not sure how you can use the term, misogynistic, for 'girls', it is contradictory in your case I think you'll agree.

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2 hours ago, radio said:

You are splitting hairs, Trinity, and I suspect you are doing it deliberately.

We, and I use that term, as against 'you', are not talking about air stewardesses, or policewomen (have you seen what policewomen wear these days?), we are speaking of a bunch of girls who were after making some lucrative pocket money by appearing at an all-male function. Did they think the men were going to stand around and sing five rousing choruses of 'Jerusalem'?

If you think that was the case then you have been living in shadow for most of your life. Of course these girls had a choice, I don't think they were dragged in off the street, some clothes thrown at them and told they would be given a fiver at the nights end - if they were 'good'. There have been no complaints simply because the bulge of notes in their handbags made up for a few, and it was a few, wandering hands.

You are also trying to provoke response by your silly remark that I think it's okay for men to abuse (your word) women but not the other way around and I'm not sure what a short dress has to do with the equation.

I'm not sure how you can use the term, misogynistic, for 'girls', it is contradictory in your case I think you'll agree.

I think you are trying to evade the points raised. It is irrelevant what the women (not girls, girls are pre prepubescent) thought might happen at this all male function, what is relevant is that people should keep their grubby little hands to themselves. It is irrelevant that the women might earn a few $$ doing some corporate lads gig (30 per hour sounds like exploitation btw), what is relevant is that the lads should keep their grubby little hands to themselves. 

Did you not raise a point about women getting away with sexual harassment, which you seem to dislike, but defend sexual harassment by males against women ? 

I am glad we both agree that the short black dresses should have little to do with this. It's a terrible thing to blame misconduct and abuse against women on the clothes they are wearing. We should be blaming the men that can't keep their grubby little hands to themselves. 

Lastly I don't understand your last comment. In my case? Please elaborate for me. 

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