bratman

I'm sorry I must be stupid

101 posts in this topic

5 hours ago, Trinity said:

A double entendre, yes. But I fear the thread may be derailing. 

That happened when the weenie raised his ugly head.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stephen Hawking and leading doctors win the right to a judicial review and will take Jeremy Hunt to court over 'back-door privatisation' of the NHS. 

This is all about profit based Accountable Care Organisations who the government are setting up to run the delivery of NHS services.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A New York man won $1 million on a Scratch card. Not surprisingly he started to make plans.

The plans included a trip to the doctor, because he couldn't afford to go previously. Apparently he was a self-employed carpenter and didn't have insurance.

He hadn't been feeling well for a while,  so going to the doctors was a priority.The news wasn't good. He learned he had stage four cancer. The poor guy died 23 days after buying the winning ticket.

I don't know the ins and outs of healthcare in the U.S. and maybe there are other reasons why he didn't see a doctor, but if he couldn't see a doctor for lack of money that is a sad indictment of a system that I would not want to see replicated here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Donald Trump says the NHS is broken, and thousands march about it in the streets.  

But they were marching because they want to keep it as it is but with more funding. #Fake news.

Sad.

So let's look at so key comparisons:

Life expectancy, UK vs. US:
🇬🇧 male: 79.4; 🇺🇸 male: 76.9
🇬🇧 female: 83.0; 🇺🇸 female: 81.6

Healthcare spending (OECD):
🇬🇧: 9.9% of GDP
🇺🇸: 16.6% of GDP

Uninsured:
🇬🇧: 0
🇺🇸: 28 million

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, explorer1954 said:

Donald Trump says the NHS is broken, and thousands march about it in the streets.  

But they were marching because they want to keep it as it is but with more funding. #Fake news.

So if they like it the way it is, what is the increased funding for? It could be said that it is 'broken' at this time.

So let's look at so key comparisons:

Life expectancy, UK vs. US:
🇬🇧 male: 79.4; 🇺🇸 male: 76.9
🇬🇧 female: 83.0; 🇺🇸 female: 81.6

There may be many good reasons for these differences.

Healthcare spending (OECD):
🇬🇧: 9.9% of GDP
🇺🇸: 16.6% of GDP

One of our problems is that we need to lower the cost of meds and take a close look at liability laws concerning healthcare.

Uninsured:
🇬🇧: 0
🇺🇸: 28 million

Anyone can go to the ER at anytime and be treated without delay.

Our system is far from perfect, but can be improved while still maintaining it's quality and availability.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, rowlf said:

 

"So if they like it the way it is, what is the increased funding for? It could be said that it is 'broken' at this time."

No, not broken, just slightly bruised. It all depends on which part of the country you live in. The extra funding is to help with the bruising and get it up to speed again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

17 hours ago, rowlf said:

So if they like it the way it is, what is the increased funding for? It could be said that it is 'broken' at this time.

It’s true that thousands of people took to the streets over the weekend – on a march to try to protect an institution they care about a great deal.

In reality, the UK is facing the same challenges as many other developed countries: as people live longer and have fewer children, the population is aging, and older people are requiring much more and more expensive care than they used to, increasing pressures on the system.

The government have not increased NHS funding to keep up with these pressures, leaving the service stretched thin, a situation brought to a head by an unusually severe flu season. It is important to remember, that NHS funding could be increased by 50% and UK government spending from health would still only just be hitting US levels – this is not a system that is intrinsically broken, just one that’s underfunded.

17 hours ago, rowlf said:

here may be many good reasons for these differences.

How about people putting off visiting the doctor until they can afford it, delaying operations as they don't have the money at the moment. Frightened of becoming bankrupt because of high medical bills.........

 

17 hours ago, rowlf said:

One of our problems is that we need to lower the cost of meds and take a close look at liability laws concerning healthcare.

The reason US healthcare costs so much is its immense complexity: hospitals charge insurers as much as they can, doctors are used to prescribing expensive tests and drugs, and the whole system is so complicated that huge swathes of funding go on administrating the whole mess. This is surely a result of the majority of US healthcare being driven by the profit motive.

 

17 hours ago, rowlf said:

Anyone can go to the ER at anytime and be treated without delay.

If that is the case why would any individual pay for healthcare?

The US healthcare system undoubtedly has amazing centres of excellence and can provide I am sure superb levels of care but from this side of the Atlantic it would appear to be only on offer to those with insurance or very deep pockets or both.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, explorer1954 said:

If that is the case why would any individual pay for healthcare?

I think this sentence sums it all up. I've paid for healthcare my entire life. If all us that were able to pay, actually paid for their own healthcare, neither of our country's would be in the fix we're in. Reality check is that too many layabouts feed from the fatted calf. Able-bodied souls should share the weight of providing for those that are unable to fend for themselves. However, in a welfare society, too many are enabled to not participate. Fewer and fewer are paying for more and more.

The US healthcare system undoubtedly has amazing centres of excellence and can provide I am sure superb levels of care but from this side of the Atlantic it would appear to be only on offer to those with insurance or very deep pockets or both.

Appearances are often deceiving.
 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, rowlf said:

 

Actually we do pay for our health care, it is called National Insurance contributions. With what I paid when I was working, I could have bought really good health insurance. The problem is the Government seems to treat it as another tax revenue, so uses it for other things. Additionally, all the Self Employed pay the minimum even though some of them earn lots more than the people in full time employment, and when this Government tried to change it, there was uproar. Here is the real kicker, people on private pensions don't, that was the first thing I noticed when I retired, not paying out £450 a month in NI, so effectively they get it for free. Now in the ideal world all those contributions would have been banked by the Government to pay for the persons medical costs when they retired, but we know they didn't. That is also the issue with final salary pensions, the idea of them was 50% of people would die within 2 years of retiring, which they did when I was young, so they paid for the ones that lived longer (sorry I know it is callous, but that is how the finance people think). During Maggie's reign Business saw an easy way to reduce headcount, by retiring people early, not thinking about the long term implications, but then the average Businessman and a Goldfish have a lot in common, hence all finally Salary Pension Schemes are all in deficit, not including those that have been pillaged. Of course if you retire at 55 and you hated your job, you are probably going to live a lot longer, when people retired at 65 they were generally burn out so died either from boredom, or just being worn out.

Edited by ruby
Add extra

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

17 hours ago, rowlf said:

I think this sentence sums it all up. I've paid for healthcare my entire life. If all us that were able to pay, actually paid for their own healthcare, neither of our country's would be in the fix we're in. Reality check is that too many layabouts feed from the fatted calf. Able-bodied souls should share the weight of providing for those that are unable to fend for themselves. However, in a welfare society, too many are enabled to not participate. Fewer and fewer are paying for more and more.

But if care is available to all as you imply what is the point of expensive private health care?

17 hours ago, rowlf said:

Appearances are often deceiving

So why do so many people become bankrupt because of health bills and / or defer treatment?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, explorer1954 said:

 

But if care is available to all as you imply what is the point of expensive private health care?

So why do so many people become bankrupt because of health bills and / or defer treatment?

Damned good question! I wish I had the complete answer. There are people that fall through the cracks.........which is a terrible thing, and should be taken care of. The wealthy can pay for the own medical expenses. The 'poor' have mostly all their medical coverage for free. The working class, if not covered by their employers, and won't or can't pay the premiums, may have a lapse in coverage. Also, some insurance policies have a maximum payout in a given year, or a lifetime limit. Obamacare has doubled down on those in the working class, increasing premiums beyond belief. I paid for my own insurance when Obamacare was created, and my premium increased almost 3X. Well, I couldn't or wouldn't pay it, so I used my VA medical insurance for a period of time until I reached 65yo, and was then covered by Medicare.

In saying all that, I believe all people should have medical coverage in this day and age. Especially the unfortunate people that can't provide for themselves. But there is no such thing as 'free' healthcare. And there's too damned many of those 'hangers on' that desire a free ride on the backs of the working man. This must be stopped.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, rowlf said:

 

In saying all that, I believe all people should have medical coverage in this day and age. Especially the unfortunate people that can't provide for themselves. But there is no such thing as 'free' healthcare. And there's too damned many of those 'hangers on' that desire a free ride on the backs of the working man. This must be stopped.

I agree that nothing provided by either of our governments is free somebody somewhere picks up the bill.

From my point of view I prefer a system where healthcare is universal and "free" at the point of delivery I just want it to be funded properly. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

In PMQ's today Theresa May again refused to rule out the NHS being part of US-UK trade deals with Trump. 

This all seems to be coming together nicely, for privatisation and sell off with the NHS currently being packaged into ACO’s (based on American model) by Hunt.

Did the electorate agree to this?

 

Edited by explorer1954
Typo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, explorer1954 said:

I agree that nothing provided by either of our governments is free somebody somewhere picks up the bill.

From my point of view I prefer a system where healthcare is universal and "free" at the point of delivery I just want it to be funded properly. 

I guess you didn't read my post. 'Somebody somewhere picks up the bill' sounds so cavalier. The working man pays for the free healthcare. If the gov taxes the companies, the companies are still going to transfer these costs to the public.

Bottom line. Fewer and fewer workers are paying for more and more layabouts. And the higher taxes on the companies makes it difficult to sell their products.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, explorer1954 said:

 

In PMQ's today Theresa May again refused to rule out the NHS being part of US-UK trade deals with Trump. 

This all seems to be coming together nicely, for privatisation and sell off with the NHS currently being packaged into ACO’s (based on American model) by Hunt.

Did the electorate agree to this?

 

This is a government with a death wish.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, helen said:

This is a government with a death wish.

Maybe a little Trumpish?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, rowlf said:

I guess you didn't read my post. 'Somebody somewhere picks up the bill' sounds so cavalier. The working man pays for the free healthcare. If the gov taxes the companies, the companies are still going to transfer these costs to the public.

Bottom line. Fewer and fewer workers are paying for more and more layabouts. And the higher taxes on the companies makes it difficult to sell their products.

Actually I did read your post. Whilst it may be cavalier it is a statement of fact government expenditure is not magic money it's paid for by us all l. 

At the end of the day we have choices to make and the choice of the overwhelming majority of people in the UK is that a universal healthcare system is what they want. People in your country have made alternative choices.

I also guess that we fund things slightly different here by I think having a tax such as VAT which you can't avoid that easily. This I think raised about £120Bn.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They say that finding passenger places on cross channel ferries is becoming increasingly difficult due to dissatisfied so called Brits leaving for greener fields. (I wish).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, explorer1954 said:

Actually I did read your post. Whilst it may be cavalier it is a statement of fact government expenditure is not magic money it's paid for by us all l. 

At the end of the day we have choices to make and the choice of the overwhelming majority of people in the UK is that a universal healthcare system is what they want. People in your country have made alternative choices.

I also guess that we fund things slightly different here by I think having a tax such as VAT which you can't avoid that easily. This I think raised about £120Bn.

I understand what you're saying. Universal healthcare is good. But a sense of fair play is also good. If we all worked together to achieve the goals that we desire, we wouldn't be having this discussion. And I honestly don't know a realistic way of achieving this 'elevated level playing field'. No one should be denied healthcare. Period. But we could make it harder for those that would choose to live off the system, rather than working with the system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now